INTERMITTENT STARTING PROBLEM
- Thread starter Village Idiot
- Start date
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beltrack
Member
Between my wife and I, we've had 4 EFI Bonnies. This newest one, a 2014 T100 has the same issue. My selling dealer has since kicked Triumph out of his shop, so warranty and "contacting the factory" is no longer an option unless I want to deliver my bike to another dealer 50 miles away. So, last fall when I surrendered my bike for winter storage, I had my selling dealer replace the starter switch (on my dime since he can't do warranty work any more) as that intuitively felt like the problem. Well, it didn't fix a thing. I'm wondering, has anyone had their ECU replaced yet? That seems to be the one thing that Triumph is dancing around. Between us all here and on other boards, we've replaced starter switches, batteries, starter relays, headlamp relays(?), starters, etc., all to no avail. Has anyone tried replacing the "brain" (ECU)?
Seems to be a "glitch" in the ecu, some say. I've had my starter relay replace on Triumph's dime and it seemed to help a bit; still does it, but not as much. The only consolation is that the bike always will start, just that it takes a couple of tries, or just continue to hold down the button.
Jim
Jim
beltrack
Member
VI: That is good news, excellent news. I'm led to believe that the issue seems to be that there is a voltage threshold below which the ECU will not allow the starter to spin. One wonders if this threshold" has now been lowered so that newer bikes do not have the problem. Sort of a secret recall--"We don't admit anything, but we've improved the new ECU."
beltrack
Member
I base my conclusion on where the trouble lies on this link on that "other" board.
Cheap, easy and effective Emergency start mod. - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
I, too, have had several instances of my bike not starting. It usually occurs when the bike is cold, or after it's been ridden but has been sitting for a while (warm).
I found that goosing it with a bit of throttle when the start switch was pressed the second time always resulted in a good start.
However, in reading this thread, I was struck by a new member's posts - Ryanizzle, starting at post #73. He suggested that the fuel choke knob should be engaged during the start sequence, in accordance with the User's Manual.
YMMV if you don't have a Bonnie, but it would probably behoove all of us to actually
.
I immediately checked mine and wah-lah, on page 46, it says that the choke should ALWAYS be used on a cold or partly warm engine, even if the OAT is >77*F/25*C (emphasis mine).
WH_A_A_AT????
Using the choke knob is the equivalent of goosing the start sequence with a bit of throttle.
The manual also says to leave the throttle completely closed during the start.
I haven't seen a definitive cure for these start issues, so in the future I'm going to start the bike the way Triumph recommends and see if that takes care of *my* start problems.
One final note: there are limitations on the starter switch. My manual says don't run the starter for longer than 5", then you have to have a cool down of 15". If you don't do this cool down, the starter motor will overheat and cause a decrease in battery power.
And if the battery power drops, maybe the ECU detects a ripple in the Matrix and aborts the start sequence...?
Again, YMMV. Regardless, it wouldn't hurt to check your owner's manual for the proper start procedure, not what we all *think* it is. I was guilty of that!
My thanks to Ryanizzle for the suggestion, although I think he has left the Forum.
I found that goosing it with a bit of throttle when the start switch was pressed the second time always resulted in a good start.
However, in reading this thread, I was struck by a new member's posts - Ryanizzle, starting at post #73. He suggested that the fuel choke knob should be engaged during the start sequence, in accordance with the User's Manual.
YMMV if you don't have a Bonnie, but it would probably behoove all of us to actually
.I immediately checked mine and wah-lah, on page 46, it says that the choke should ALWAYS be used on a cold or partly warm engine, even if the OAT is >77*F/25*C (emphasis mine).
WH_A_A_AT????
Using the choke knob is the equivalent of goosing the start sequence with a bit of throttle.
The manual also says to leave the throttle completely closed during the start.
I haven't seen a definitive cure for these start issues, so in the future I'm going to start the bike the way Triumph recommends and see if that takes care of *my* start problems.
One final note: there are limitations on the starter switch. My manual says don't run the starter for longer than 5", then you have to have a cool down of 15". If you don't do this cool down, the starter motor will overheat and cause a decrease in battery power.
And if the battery power drops, maybe the ECU detects a ripple in the Matrix and aborts the start sequence...?
Again, YMMV. Regardless, it wouldn't hurt to check your owner's manual for the proper start procedure, not what we all *think* it is. I was guilty of that!
My thanks to Ryanizzle for the suggestion, although I think he has left the Forum.
beltrack
Member
The good news is that I've not heard of anyone who has been stranded because of this problem. I've tried pushing and releasing the starter button and I've tried holding the starter button in. Either way, the bike eventually (so far) cranks over and starts. If the bike ever failed to start, I'd replace the ECU with an aftermarket model (somewhat less expensive) and see what happens.
The cold starting procedure on my T100 with carbs is to pull the choke full on, don't touch the throttle, and hit the starter.
Ease the choke off as the engine warms up.
If the engine is hot I hit the starter button and give the throttle a small twist (goose) at the same time.
Ease the choke off as the engine warms up.
If the engine is hot I hit the starter button and give the throttle a small twist (goose) at the same time.
Hello, all, again: The original problem was that the engine would not turn over fully and kept stopping and trying to complete a full rotation as Beltrak mentions. The "choke" will have no effect on this problem, as it requires the engine to crank over for the fuel to get into it. We're discussing 2 different problems here, apparently..........and that's fine; you never know when one or the other will "pop up". The only time the "choke" was used on my T-100 was when the dealer showed me how to start the bike (ha, ha) and it's never been needed again. My bike has the original, lack of rotation, problem which (knock on wood) has seemed to have gotten much better.
Now that the "village idiot" has said that....................: Jim
Now that the "village idiot" has said that....................: Jim
If that problem gets to bad re-wire the starter system with a new relay and wire from the starter button through the relay to the starter, using a "hot" wire directly from the battery to the relay. There are millions of relays out there, a small one off of a riding lawn mower works good. Just use the same size wire as what is on the bike and you will be ok. If you run into some wiring problems or don't understand the wiring go to a alternator and starter shop and explain that you want to by-pass the starting system with new wiring separate from the factory wiring they should be able to help you with no problem.
Hopefully, I won't have to go that route, Dave, but one never knows.
Thanks for the information: Jim
Thanks for the information: Jim
I seem to remember seeing somewhere a "fix" that used a button installed somewhere maybe on the starter that bypassed the comp. This allowed the starter to work, could have been on another forum. If you find this let me know, sounds like some useful info to have.
That fix was contributed by Forchetto on the Triumph Rat forum.
Thanks, TJ: That's good to know! How long have you had the LI battery in the bike?
Jim
Jim
The battery has been in place since April 2013. It is a ShoRai LFX 1481 - B S12 and is much smaller than the stock battery. I have been charging it with an old battery tender without problem. I also bought an Easy Start Headlight Control Module from Newbonneville which shuts off the lights until after starting when you hit the high beams. Between the two of these I have not had a problem since.
Thank you...................looks like I know what my next battery is going to be!!
Jim
Jim
sketch383
Member
Nice to get a confirmation on my thoughts regarding getting a lithium battery to solve the low voltage cutoff. Any issues with the lithium? some shops in Oz tend to shy away in fear that it tends to catch fire. I've also talked to my mechanic and he says it's no problem also remapping the Ecu to have a lower voltage cutoff. Anyone else here got their mechanic to just remap the ecu to a lower voltage cutoff?
felixxx999
Member
THANKS SO MUCH. I've had a Triumph Bonneville since 2010 and have never had starting issues. Your tricks (holding down the starter and pulling out the choke -which I haven't touched ever) did it. I ride every day and this was getting very frustrating.
