1983 Triumph T140W 750 TSS; 8 valves & electric start!

[Sea Dog]

Re: 1983 Triumph T140W 750 TSS; 8 valves & electric start! - GrandPaul

Fitted the 7 plate clutch yesterday and all seems well. The material on the new bonded plates is completely different to the originals with what appears to be brass fragments in the mix. By comparison, the originals had absorbed oil, which was causing them to stick onto the steel plates.

Interestingly, the TSS has a "7 plate" clutch as standard.

This is achieved by making the clutch housing a bonded plate by glueing the clutch material directly to the housing as can be seen in the photo. Then alternately, a steel plate, then bonded plate...etc are fitted ending with a steel plate against the pressure plate. The standard TSS clutch has 7 steel plates and 6 bonded plates plus the bonded housing. In the parts manual it only lists 6 bonded plates and 6 steel plates, which would make the first plate to be inserted a bonded plate as described in the workshop manual. With the TSS's bonded housing, the first plate to be inserted is a steel plate. It appears that the extra power of the 8 valve engine, required this factory upgrade.

The 7 plate upgrade kit provides 7 bonded plates plus an extra steel plate to be used with the existing 6 steel plates. On the non TSS clutch, the bonded plate is fitted first, which seats onto the face of the clutch housing, then the remaining plates fitted finishing with a steel plate against the pressure plate.

In the case of the TSS, with its bonded housing, it was tempting to fit a steel plate first, however logic prevailed and I decided that the old bond material on the housing would stick to the steel plate and I would still have a sticking clutch. Having measured the standard clutch pack thickness of the old clutch at 34.4mm and the new clutch pack at 33.6mm, I knew that I could fit a new bonded plate first, which rests against the bonded housing and all would be well.

After a run yesterday and sitting overnight, I checked the clutch this morning and it released immediately. I will run it for a few hundred miles before confirming the upgrade a complete success, just to see if the new bonded plates absorb the oil and start sticking. Will report back with my findings.

 

[CarlS]

Re: 1983 Triumph T140W 750 TSS; 8 valves & electric start! - GrandPaul

 

[mikechev]

Re: 1983 Triumph T140W 750 TSS; 8 valves & electric start! - GrandPaul

That's very interesting SD that the TSS has 7 plates as standard, I wonder if it is fitted on other late (4 Valve)models?

When i fitted the 7 plate kit to my T140D, the clutch never stuck again.... hope it works for you too.

As always a very informitive post.

Cheers

 

[Sea Dog]

Re: 1983 Triumph T140W 750 TSS; 8 valves & electric start! - GrandPaul

That's very interesting SD that the TSS has 7 plates as standard, I wonder if it is fitted on other late (4 Valve)models?

When i fitted the 7 plate kit to my T140D, the clutch never stuck again.... hope it works for you too.

As always a very informitive post.

Cheers

Hi Mike,

New clutch is an absolute success. Do not have to clear it with the kickstart in the mornings and take up is very smooth. Have done about 300 kms with it now with quite a bit of running in town stopped at traffic lights and it slides into 1st with no effort.

Very happy

 

[otherwise]

Re: 1983 Triumph T140W 750 TSS; 8 valves & electric start! - GrandPaul

I'll be interested in a clutch report after you get your new 800 and the TSS sit unloved for a few weeks.
Will it stick or be free?

 

[Sea Dog]

Re: 1983 Triumph T140W 750 TSS; 8 valves & electric start! - GrandPaul

I'll be interested in a clutch report after you get your new 800 and the TSS sit unloved for a few weeks.
Will it stick or be free?

Now there's a thought. The ultimate test of ones commitment to something (one) you know warts and all, have disected it to its very nothingness then caressed back to life, then confronted by this young, extremely capable, exciting blond (it's white), that will take me places I have never been before and has robbed me of my last cent.........one is furtive and has to prove itself....the other, with a little caressing, faithful to the end.

As for the clutch......I won't be able to help myself......always free

 

[otherwise]

Re: 1983 Triumph T140W 750 TSS; 8 valves & electric start! - GrandPaul

Entered the TSS in the local classic bike show last weekend. Over 100 bikes were entered and I came away with the best Triumph award.

Trailered up ready for the show

The Daytona on the left was very tasty

That's enough of looking pretty, once the new clutch plates are in its back on the road to get dirty.

Have you seen this, I lifted it from an Australian forum.
Looks familiar at about 8.05 and 10.30 min in.

[video=vimeo;26872118]http://vimeo.com/26872118[/video]

 

[Sea Dog]

Re: 1983 Triumph T140W 750 TSS; 8 valves & electric start! - GrandPaul

Hey thanks OW. Not a bad turn out for a wet week end. We were down about 20 bikes from our usual numbers. Spent Friday and Saturday nights camped out on security and fire watch over the bikes. A bloke did a huge burn out at 11pm Saturday night outside the venue on his Suzuki M109R Boulevard. Leaning against a brick wall he got all the way to 5th gear before something very serious went wrong in the transmission. Couldn't see the bike for smoke and shreaded rubber. Nasty for him....hilarious for us. Filled him up on more Jack Daniels and he felt a little better until the morning. The issues with the Boulevard were nothing compared to his hang over.

 

[CarlS]

Re: 1983 Triumph T140W 750 TSS; 8 valves & electric start! - GrandPaul

LOL, I never been drunk enough to do a deliberate burnout. Tires are just too expensive for me to waste my money like that.

 

[grandpaul]

Re: 1983 Triumph T140W 750 TSS; 8 valves & electric start! - GrandPaul

Fantastic bike show. Period.

 

[TSS_rider]

Re: 1983 Triumph T140W 750 TSS; 8 valves & electric start! - GrandPaul

I have been away from this thread for awhile; and I am pleasantly surprised by the amount of activity. This thread could be a blog unto itself.

I recently completed some work on my TSS:
1) I converted the bike back to a kick start only – I think it looks better, I don’t trust the electric start and it saves some weight.
2) I put on a European style low bar. I never liked the stock bars with the awkward angled, pulled back position of the hand grips.
3) I put on Norton style pea shooter mufflers. I think it looks and sounds better than the stock mufflers.

The bike feels and sounds better to me. Things in process: New tires; replace original rear sprocket(44 teeth?) – the current one has 47T. Put on stock fork springs (replacing progressives). I don’t like the sagging springs that are designed into progressives. Determine what is causing the clutch plates to stick so badly. Starting and putting in gear while on center stand is the only way to free these plates; and even this method not easy.

Things in consideration: Replace stock air cleaners with K&Ns. I am not sure if this is a worthwhile mod.

I was hooked on the TSS when it came out in 1983 but have never had one. I am anxious to see how it compares to my other bikes of the same era. My first impressions of the bike are that is a very good handling bike, even with the soft suspension. I have not been able to really push it yet due to the aged and cracked tires. Also, the erratic behavior of the tach and speedo prevents me from really knowing how hard the engine is working. With good tires and a good tach, it should interesting test its mettle.

Comments: My seat feels very soft, the foot pegs are also mushy soft, and the front suspension has progressive springs. This must have been Triumphs way of isolating the twin’s vibrations from the rider. It seems effective, but it is a much softer ride than the typical British/Italian sports bike of the period.

Questions:
1) My TSS has 18,000 miles and the engine seems fine, the valves are bit noisy, but no more than a trident. It seems several other bikes on this list have had a lot of work done on the engine with far fewer miles than mine; it makes me wonder. Has anyone taken a compression test? I would be interested to see how it compares to mine.
2) Does anyone have any experience on these 12.5” marzochhi strada shocks? I have no experience with them. They have an air valve in the front of the shock on top of the reservoir; do they take gas? Or air? My shocks show no pressure on my air gauge.
3) Does anyone know the factory spec valve timing? There must be someone who has this info.

That is about all I have for now. The messages and pics on this thread are great!

Pat

 

[Sea Dog]

Re: 1983 Triumph T140W 750 TSS; 8 valves & electric start! - GrandPaul

1) My TSS has 18,000 miles and the engine seems fine, the valves are bit noisy, but no more than a trident. It seems several other bikes on this list have had a lot of work done on the engine with far fewer miles than mine; it makes me wonder. Has anyone taken a compression test? I would be interested to see how it compares to mine.
2) Does anyone have any experience on these 12.5” marzochhi strada shocks? I have no experience with them. They have an air valve in the front of the shock on top of the reservoir; do they take gas? Or air? My shocks show no pressure on my air gauge.
3) Does anyone know the factory spec valve timing? There must be someone who has this info.

Hello Pat,

1. Did a compression test on mine and achieved 150 psi, engine at operating temp, throttle wide open and 3 compression strokes using the electric starter. With regards to the tappets, mine can be heard, but not intrusive. Important to keep a check on them and retorque the head nuts every time prior to adjusting the tappets. The head gasket rings appear to require a lot of settling time. If you keep on top of the head nut tensions, the rest of the engine is very robust and reliable. The only other weak point being the starter sprag clutch, as you have discovered. You will read previously in this thread my success with the sticking clutch. British Spares (New Zealand) can supply the 7 plate kit for around $NZ190. I highly recommend this upgrade.

2. The Marzocchi rear shocks have air in them, inflated to 28 - 42 psi. The reason for pressurising the bellows is to keep the oil on the other side of the bellows under pressure to prevent airation of the oil which results in more consistant damping.

3. No idea about the valve timing, however the camshaft gears are unique to the TSS as they have 8V stamped on them. The intermediate gear has the same part number as a standard T140, T120.

Photos of your TSS please. Interested in how it looks with the peashooters and different bars.

 

[mikechev]

Re: 1983 Triumph T140W 750 TSS; 8 valves & electric start! - GrandPaul

Go here for Marzocchi repair kit http://www.marzocchi.co.uk/moto/850193-C.html

Go here for manual www.iloc.co.uk/gallery/albums/.../Marzocchi_Rear_Shocks_Manual.pdf

Hope these help.

Mike

 

[Sea Dog]

Re: 1983 Triumph T140W 750 TSS; 8 valves & electric start! - GrandPaul

Go here for Marzocchi repair kit http://www.marzocchi.co.uk/moto/850193-C.html

Go here for manual www.iloc.co.uk/gallery/albums/.../Marzocchi_Rear_Shocks_Manual.pdf

Hope these help.


Mike

Thanks Mike,

Mazocchi in the UK have the parts which I have ordered. My shocks are leaking oil. Probably standing too long with out use. The Mazocchi manual came with my bike.

How's the work going on your TSS ?

 

[TSS_rider]

Thanks for info, Sea Dog and Mike.

My compresson test showed 130 on the left cylinder, 139 on the right.
When I added a squirt of oil into each cylinder, the number jumped to 153 on the left, 167 on the right.
I didn't count the compression strokes; I just jumped on kick starter as quciklly as I could, probably about 6 or 7 kicks.

By the way, this last weekend I put on an oil pressure gauge and got a reading at cold ilde of slightly over 60psi. My t120 with a relatively fresh engine reads 80psi at cold idle.

I will check again after the bike is warmed up, but it is a messy operation.

I am not sure how to interpret this info. It is not smoking at all; I need to test ride it to see how it rides.

I borrowed a digital camera and took a couple of photos of the bike. I hope these upload ok.

-Pat

 

[DaveM]

Wow Pat your bike is stunning

 

[Sea Dog]

Hi Pat,

Really like the mods you have done. The pea shooters suit the bike and handle bars are a huge improvement over standard. Ditching the starter motor certainly cleans up the engine and will ensure a very reliable motorcycle........you have got me thinking.

With regards to the compression test, I will do mine using the kick start when I get a chance and post the results. Best to compare apples with apples. Your T120 oil pressure of 80psi when cold indicates the setting of the spring pressure of your pressure relief valve. I get the same reading of 65 psi as your TSS at idle when cold, which is the correct pressure relief valve setting. What will indicate big end bearing wear, is your oil pressure when your engine is hot, using the correct 20W50 oil. Mine is 45 psi at a slow idle.

If your engine is not using oil or smoking, I would suggest it is in good order. Check if there is any oil residue in your right hand air filter box adjacent the engine breather. A small amount is acceptable. The bottom end of these engines is very robust. The difference in compression between the left and right cylinders when tested dry and wet, indicates that you may have leaking valves in the left cylinder. Double check your valve clearances to ensure they are spot on 8 thou.

A better test to carry out if you have the gear is a cylinder leakage test. This requires applying air pressure from an air compressor via a special fitting in your spark plug hole when your piston is at top dead centre on the compression stroke where the inlet and exhaust valves are closed. This must be done with the bike in gear with the rear brake applied to prevent the engine turning over. With your rocker covers off, if air is hissing from your push rod tubes, then your piston rings are leaking. If air is hissing from your exhaust pipes / mufflers, the exhaust valves are leaking and if air is hissing through the carburettors the inlet valves are leaking. This must be done with the engine at operating temperature. I made up the fitting for the spark plug hole by removing the ceramic centre of a spark plug, then welding a suitable air fitting to the spark plug casing.

Hope this info is of practical use to you.

Cheers

SD

 

[CarlS]

Good information and advice.

 

[TSS_rider]

Sea Dog,
Thanks for the excellent advice.
I am looking forward to running this test. I have heard of it, but never have done so. I will report back when completed. I am not sure if this is relevant, but how much pressure to you put in the combustion chamber when running this test?

This weedend I will be putting new tires on; I hope to do the cylinder leakage test after that.


-Pat

 

[Sea Dog]

Sea Dog,
Thanks for the excellent advice.
I am looking forward to running this test. I have heard of it, but never have done so. I will report back when completed. I am not sure if this is relevant, but how much pressure to you put in the combustion chamber when running this test?

This weedend I will be putting new tires on; I hope to do the cylinder leakage test after that.

-Pat

Hi Pat,

Around 100 psi is ample. Does not have to be exact. 100 psi will ensure the rings are pushed out against the cylinder walls.

Look forward to the outcome.

SD