No bushings in the small end of the rods is normal. Your big end shells look very good. You machinist can likely polish out the rod journals and you can PROBABLY go back in with same (original size) shells.
1967/1969 Bonnie Rebuild Desert Sled Project
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Exhaust cam key frustration - So, I still haven't been able to remove the exhaust cam because I cannot get the key out from the right side, so it will slide out of the bushing. I even purchased a very small punch to try to move it a bit but it doesn't want to move easily. I also notice that this bushing has a cutout (see photo) that I have aligned with the key in the photo. The intake side bushing did not have this cutout - so I'm wondering if this is something that is supposed to be there? I hesitate to apply and more energy to the key/cam/bushing to get it out. Any ideas/comments on this difficulty are appreciated!
Hi Sundance, just seen this other post you did. Interesting, your frame number is DU49 and mine is DU45. I have the build certificate showing my bike was built in Sept.66 and it also came with 389/95 Monoblocs. They made a lot of bikes for 67 so your frame must have been built very close to mine.
The 95 carb was a specific change/request made by the US importer only and was done to increase power. They also used them on the TT off road version. Only the early 66/67 bikes still had the Monoblocs before changing to Concentrics plus the Aubergine over Gold tank scheme which was quickly discontinued. I ordered brand new Monoblocs from Burlins (Amal) in the UK. Extremely helpful. Monoblocs are a little more involved compared to Concentrics and will cost quite a bit more in restoration parts. If too worn it might not be cost effective. You may find there is a restorer in the US who could renovate them cheaper than buying new. All depends what condition they are in. Great carbs when running correctly. If you can afford it just buy two brand new ones from Burlins. The 95 are not normal stock item so I had to pre order. Who knows, they may still have some in stock if they did a small run when making mine which I only received recently.
I did use the old float chamber covers to look more original. They are an identical fit but say "Made in Birmingham" rather than just "Made in England" which is on the new ones. Only someone as anal as me would notice and I doubt you will be entering Concours events. Actually its great that a previous owner must have kept the original 95 Monoblocs and re used them on the later engine. Good used Monoblocs are becoming quite rare and the 95 even rarer. You are fortunate to have them.
Odd that the top of the tank is so rusty. Leaky roof? Don't be in a hurry to ditch the tank. Hard to find and the Emgo is not cheap and isn't an exact copy shape wise. I have seen some very successful patch repairs done on rusty old tanks (expert welder needed). The forks are 67 with the 69 TLS brake, same as mine. The left fork ear not having a hole for the ignition key dates it as a 67. Just check the lug on the right fork leg/slider that prevents the brake plate turning is long enough to safely engage. There was a Triumph Bulletin warning of this as many owners retrofitted the TLS brake to earlier machines. The earlier fork lug was shorter. Risk of the brake plate turning under braking? I have this set up and it seems perfectly fine but worth a check. I wouldn't think earlier owners of your bike were the best mechanics. For sure that is an engine I would at least partially strip before attempting to start.
Not cheap but cheaper than after a big bang. Someone also ran the electrical wiring from the Primary case through the breather tube and then sealed it? Honestly, I would pull this engine apart rather than risk it. Wife just rang to say some dopey woman has rear ended her six month old Honda Jazz!! Just Fitted front/rear dash cams a week ago. I also bought a bike dash cam for my FJR 1300 but yet to fit. Just so many morons on the road.
Hi Sundance, sorry, just seen your photo of you stripping the engine. That key gottat come out. Have you tried heating the end of the cam shaft? It looks like it has sheared off flush with the shaft? I note you still have the pip inside to locate the points plate. Mine is missing so involved a few attempts to calculate the correct position for the points plate to get the timing right. I still use the original 4ca points. Be ultra careful when refitting the inner taper shaft , its obviously really easy to break this locating pip and its non repairable but at least worst case it just makes timing a little harder. This was when I was glad I invested in the proper removal tool making the job much easier. You just never know what a previous "mechanic" may have done to these old bikes, a veritable voyage of discovery into the unknown. Good luck with it all.
Looks like somebody else was more frustrated than you and notched the bushing.
Drive it out and replace, then it has to be line-bored to match the opposite side, with the crank and the other cam in place, and the case halves bolted together. everything should spin nice and free, with no more than specified allowable runout. (kinda like a job for a machinist, ESPECIALLY line boring the new bushing)
If you click on the link, it takes you to Morgo's plunger pump.
Depends. The plunger pump produces about 60 psi on a good day with hot oil; otoh, the rotary pump produces about 80 psi on a good day with hot oil. Either pressure will reduce with enlargement of the clearances in the plain bearings that are the restriction causing the pressure ... but more enlargement without consequent problems is possible if you start with a higher pressure.
Another potential benefit of Morgo's rotary is, as their website says, it can circulate the oil twice as quickly; this means oil circulation will remove more heat from the engine.
However, there is no free lunch:-
. Because there is a fixed oil quantity (5 British pints on a Triumph with a separate oil tank) being circulated, it must be capable of radiating the additional absorbed heat in the shorter time it spends outside the engine. E.g. the triples' rotary pump circulates the 5 pints about six/seven times faster than the plunger pump; in order to meet their other lubrication system design criterion - temperature equilibrium when flat out (125 mph) in 50 degrees C ambient - they were fitted with an oil cooler as standard.
. However, you do not want to remove much heat from the engine until it has reached operating temperature. Snag certainly with triples' coolers is most will not ever see either "flat out" or 50 degrees C ambient in their entire lives, never mind at the same time. The guy who specified the triples' oil cooler also specified a thermostat but, for reasons now lost, BSA/Triumph chose to ignore the second recommendation.
Result was/is most triples spent/d most of their running time with oil colder than it should be, and a common modern "sensible mod" is an oil thermostat ...Other considerations when upgrading from plunger to rotary pump:-
. Given the faster oil circulation, you have to be sure the big end clearances remain the only restriction generating pressure; i.e. the diameter of the oilways do not become the restriction; otherwise the pressure relief valve will simply dump much of the faster oil circulation straight into the sump ...
. Higher cold oil pressure. Twins feed the oil for the big ends through the timing cover into that end of the crank, the gap between cover and crank having a garter seal. Over-enthusiastic combination of throttle and cold oil is widely known for inverting the crank seal, which results in no oil at all to the big ends ...
One final problem with particularly the Morgo rotary pump is certainly early ones required manual priming after any maintenance; however, I do not know if this problem has been solved, or if the 'head' between the tank and a twin's pump keeps the latter primed?
A common view is: the standard plunger pump lubricated hundreds of thousands of Triumph twins all over the world for several decades and millions of miles without problems; Triumph twins also won thousands of races all over the world, local to prestigious international; the Morgo plunger pump is well-made; the Morgo rotary pump is equally well made but costs twice as much, is it twice as good?
I think my next attempt will be to use some heat on the key. It looks like when it was installed the PO must have pressed the key into the bushing?
OK, It seems I would be best going with a Morgo plunger pump at this juncture.If you click on the link, it takes you to Morgo's plunger pump.
Depends. The plunger pump produces about 60 psi on a good day with hot oil; otoh, the rotary pump produces about 80 psi on a good day with hot oil. Either pressure will reduce with enlargement of the clearances in the plain bearings that are the restriction causing the pressure ... but more enlargement without consequent problems is possible if you start with a higher pressure.
Another potential benefit of Morgo's rotary is, as their website says, it can circulate the oil twice as quickly; this means oil circulation will remove more heat from the engine.
However, there is no free lunch:-
. Because there is a fixed oil quantity (5 British pints on a Triumph with a separate oil tank) being circulated, it must be capable of radiating the additional absorbed heat in the shorter time it spends outside the engine. E.g. the triples' rotary pump circulates the 5 pints about six/seven times faster than the plunger pump; in order to meet their other lubrication system design criterion - temperature equilibrium when flat out (125 mph) in 50 degrees C ambient - they were fitted with an oil cooler as standard.
. However, you do not want to remove much heat from the engine until it has reached operating temperature. Snag certainly with triples' coolers is most will not ever see either "flat out" or 50 degrees C ambient in their entire lives, never mind at the same time. The guy who specified the triples' oil cooler also specified a thermostat but, for reasons now lost, BSA/Triumph chose to ignore the second recommendation.
Other considerations when upgrading from plunger to rotary pump:-
. Given the faster oil circulation, you have to be sure the big end clearances remain the only restriction generating pressure; i.e. the diameter of the oilways do not become the restriction; otherwise the pressure relief valve will simply dump much of the faster oil circulation straight into the sump ...
. Higher cold oil pressure. Twins feed the oil for the big ends through the timing cover into that end of the crank, the gap between cover and crank having a garter seal. Over-enthusiastic combination of throttle and cold oil is widely known for inverting the crank seal, which results in no oil at all to the big ends ...
One final problem with particularly the Morgo rotary pump is certainly early ones required manual priming after any maintenance; however, I do not know if this problem has been solved, or if the 'head' between the tank and a twin's pump keeps the latter primed?
A common view is: the standard plunger pump lubricated hundreds of thousands of Triumph twins all over the world for several decades and millions of miles without problems; Triumph twins also won thousands of races all over the world, local to prestigious international; the Morgo plunger pump is well-made; the Morgo rotary pump is equally well made but costs twice as much, is it twice as good?
speedrattle
Well-Known Member
these ones split the difference
Today I made some more progress. I was able to remove the sludge trap plug with a tool I filed to fit the plug. There was almost nothing inside the trap - which I have not removed. I’ve heard a way to remove the trap is to tap it and then insert a bolt of the same thread and remove by tightening a nut on the bolt once it is engaged in the trap. I imagine there are some other ways to get the trap out.
Also, I finally was able to remove the exhaust cam woodruff key to allow me to remove the cam. You can see that the bushing had a significant portion cut out, most likely due to the key being jammed against it? I’m not really sure how the bushing got this way. The cut out portion was there before I attempted to remove the key. I may have added a bit to the gouging when I was attempting to remove the key, but not much. Any ideas of how the bushing got this way or what kind of effect it would have on the engine’s functioning?
Also, I finally was able to remove the exhaust cam woodruff key to allow me to remove the cam. You can see that the bushing had a significant portion cut out, most likely due to the key being jammed against it? I’m not really sure how the bushing got this way. The cut out portion was there before I attempted to remove the key. I may have added a bit to the gouging when I was attempting to remove the key, but not much. Any ideas of how the bushing got this way or what kind of effect it would have on the engine’s functioning?
Any of the major Britbike parts suppliers should have the bushings.
I use a good ol' Craftsman 3/8" drive beam torque wrench that I got when I turned 16, almost 50 years ago. For typical use, (everything relating to classic Britbikes) they are totally adequate.
I use a good ol' Craftsman 3/8" drive beam torque wrench that I got when I turned 16, almost 50 years ago. For typical use, (everything relating to classic Britbikes) they are totally adequate.
Thanks for the comment on the wrench. I finally found the bushings.
Verify from the shop manual what the highest torque is. I had two, one goes to around 80Nm and is good for most and then another that is good for the stuff above a 100Nm. I don’t remember the max on the larger one, but consulting a shop manual will give you a good idea.
I must admit, before I got a torque wrench, I stripped my share of hardware. AFTER I got it, I've done fine but must ALSO admit, I've never used a torque wrench on a screw or very small buts (like speedo/tach fasteners). I got the "feel" for the screws very early on with Japanese 2-stroke dirt bikes, which have softer metal, so it was never an issue with Britbikes.
speedrattle
Well-Known Member
i used craftsman 1/2 and 3/8 - inch beam types for 40 years
finally went and bought this
https://www.suncoasttools.com/crm/I...MI67615puv9AIVdOW1Ch3S9ADKEAQYCSABEgLJ4vD_BwE
takes a minute to set up but after that the click function is quick and you dont need to be able to see a scale
sometimes the manuals torque settings are wrong. do NOT use 20 pounds for the half inch nuts securi g the alternator stator and find out from someone what your rod bolts need. if you can get new ones do that
finally went and bought this
https://www.suncoasttools.com/crm/I...MI67615puv9AIVdOW1Ch3S9ADKEAQYCSABEgLJ4vD_BwE
takes a minute to set up but after that the click function is quick and you dont need to be able to see a scale
sometimes the manuals torque settings are wrong. do NOT use 20 pounds for the half inch nuts securi g the alternator stator and find out from someone what your rod bolts need. if you can get new ones do that
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+1. I use the 8 lb.ft. in the triple manuals.
+1. Unless you can look directly down on a "beam" torque wrench and its scale, parallax can cause you to pull the wrong torque. Low torques like the above, risk is crossing the line to stripping the thread. I bought my first "click" torque wrench nearly fifty years ago, even good makes were not expensive then.
speedrattle
Well-Known Member
my click wrench came with a calibration certificate as well. theres nothing to go wrong with a beam wrench over time, though and the complexity of a click wrench could be a weakness, i suppose. but i keep mine in the case. its one of those tools i nevef bothered to buy and now use preferentially.
theres a torque change in rod bolts over the years too but i cant remember when and to what atm
theres a torque change in rod bolts over the years too but i cant remember when and to what atm
