1983 Triumph T140W 750 TSS; 8 valves & electric start!

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Hi SD, no the tappet blocks were quite a snug fit but they did have 2 different locating screws? the rear one was a normal hex bolt head and the front one a allen cap screw? the parts manual only lists one part number so it may have been changed or that was all that was left in parts bin the day they put this one together:y15:


Trying to get the barrel painted today....
 
So there was 2 schools of thought here, mask up the cooling fin edges before painting or re-polish/sand once painted?....after much debate (with myself) i decided on the latter as the fins are not that well finished so masking them was going to leave a rough edge that i would end up sanding anyway...

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After a good degreasing and wash in hot soapy water i started the painful task of sanding the old paint as to give a good surface to refinish, this is a job that quite enjoy but never look forward to as i know my fingers and thumbs will be raw and blistered afterwords (and they now are). The paint on the barrel was 95% intact and not flaking off the head was, but in order the have a uniform finish it will need to be painted.


I bet they never went to this much trouble at Meriden....

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These were taken just after they were painted, the gloss finish has died down a bit to more of a semi gloss and close to the original...


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Once my fingers have recovered and the paint has cured I'll start sanding again....


To be continued......
 
That is going to look amazing Mike. Best cure for sanded away finger skin....holding an icy cold glass of beer in each hand and alternately bending the elbows. BBEER
 
Got the head back from the engineering shop, and although the guides were worn the valves were still within spec and re-usable. Valve guides were available from several suppliers, even the local Brit bike shop here in Brisbane. Although valves were a different story, this brings me on to my hunch.

As with many parts on Brit bikes they were not made especially for them and often car parts were utilised e.g brake hose,pressure switch, headlamp, starter solenoid on the ES models. So the question was, were the valves made espesially for these heads? .. well i'm 99% sure they weren't instead Triumph utilised what was already out there (makes sense and saves money) the exhaust valve is from and 850 Mini engine and the inlet from 1100 Mini engine or A- series engine as it was used in more than the Mini. Now this took a fair bit of detective work as Mini's go from 1959 to 2001 and have 3 different collet groves, 2 lengths and multiple head dimensions! The valves to suit the TSS head are around $8 each for a quality brand. I also found a supplier who does Stainless steel ones for $24 each (maybe next time).

Back to the guides, the engineering shop gave me the option of fitting "K-line" guide inserts? i'd never heard of these so I was a bit dubious even though the engineering shop came highly recommended i went and did some research. Apparently these insert have been around for over 20 years, and trawling through various forums (Car and Bike) I found many positive accounts of these inserts being used and the only real negative one was were the machine shop had not fitted them correctly (not the inserts fault).

So here was my rational to myself:

The original guides lasted only 6000miles (ish) so even if i fit NOS ones they will probably only last the same and i have the risk of the head being damaged during removal/fitting of the guides. The inserts have proven track record of durability as they probably made from better more modern materials, so i went with the inserts.

Cylinder head wet blasted, valves checked and cleaned, inserts supplied and fitted, seat re-cut and turned around in a week - Cost $218 AUD, i think that is pretty good:clap:



Head as it came back to me:
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insert fitted and valves all pretty again:
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Again! Triumph never went to this much trouble.....

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All shinny and back to black ( does dull down when it dries and once the heat get into it i'm sure it will dull down some more).
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Next job is sanding back the edges of the fins, but i'm going to give the paint a few days to cure before starting that..


To be continued.......
 
Great detective work on the valves Mike! On one of your previous posts you mentioned you had seen those valves before....spot on.

Great photo of the Tulips in your back garden. :y2:

By chance, do you have the part numbers or any ID details for the valves and guides. When the time comes for the valves in my TSS to be replaced, I will go for the hardened stems to reduce the damage caused by the valve adjusters. The stainless valves fitted to mine are possibly a little soft in this area.

The way you are progressing, it won't be long before you will be firing the ol' girl up again.

Enjoy tinkering over the week end. :y54:
 
Great detective work on the valves Mike! On one of your previous posts you mentioned you had seen those valves before....spot on.

Great photo of the Tulips in your back garden. :y2:

By chance, do you have the part numbers or any ID details for the valves and guides. When the time comes for the valves in my TSS to be replaced, I will go for the hardened stems to reduce the damage caused by the valve adjusters. The stainless valves fitted to mine are possibly a little soft in this area.

The way you are progressing, it won't be long before you will be firing the ol' girl up again.

Enjoy tinkering over the week end. :y54:

Hi SD, i was progressing quite well until i broke a piston ring fitting the barrels back on!#$%$@$&^%, i'd used ring compressors and took my time and everything.... while removing the spring compressor the i knocked the barrel and out popped one of the control rings .. not a problem i'll just push it back in, not going in so i'll just use a screwdriver (don't say it i know) even as I picked up the screwdriver i knew it was wrong.... then ping! at least it never went inside the engine..

Did you get your new ring set in Australia or overseas?


Anyway, back to your question about the valves, there are several UK Mini suppliers on the web (http://www.somerfordmini.co.uk/eshop/index.php?main_page=page&id=111) try this link it should take you to the page with the valves, if it doesn't go to the main menu - engine then Internal engine- 850 and 997cc. I compared the dimensions from the TSS manual ( I'd imagine you have that if not let me know and i'll send a copy) on the only thing the manual doesn't give you is the length which is 86.5mm(ish) the other Mini Valve length is 89mm (ish) they refer to it as "long stem" but there is a 86. something mm one also. It was a bit of a trawl as i went to various sites to establish my hunch and some gave more detail than others- I e-mailed Somerford Minis requesting confirmation of the valve lengths, but i have not had a reply as yet and as and never followed up. Not sure if the part numbers shown were OE ones or unique to the supplier and i never took note of them apart for the SS one from GS Valves V290 and V291. I'll have a look through my browsing history and see if the other sites i looked at are still there.....


Are the top of your valve stems getting a bit marked by the adjuster? have you thought about lash caps as solution?


Hope this is of some help, i off to feel sorry for myselfCRY
 
Hi SD, i was progressing quite well until i broke a piston ring fitting the barrels back on!#$%$@$&^%, i'd used ring compressors and took my time and everything.... while removing the spring compressor the i knocked the barrel and out popped one of the control rings .. not a problem i'll just push it back in, not going in so i'll just use a screwdriver (don't say it i know) even as I picked up the screwdriver i knew it was wrong.... then ping! at least it never went inside the engine..

Did you get your new ring set in Australia or overseas?


Anyway, back to your question about the valves, there are several UK Mini suppliers on the web (http://www.somerfordmini.co.uk/eshop/index.php?main_page=page&id=111) try this link it should take you to the page with the valves, if it doesn't go to the main menu - engine then Internal engine- 850 and 997cc. I compared the dimensions from the TSS manual ( I'd imagine you have that if not let me know and i'll send a copy) on the only thing the manual doesn't give you is the length which is 86.5mm(ish) the other Mini Valve length is 89mm (ish) they refer to it as "long stem" but there is a 86. something mm one also. It was a bit of a trawl as i went to various sites to establish my hunch and some gave more detail than others- I e-mailed Somerford Minis requesting confirmation of the valve lengths, but i have not had a reply as yet and as and never followed up. Not sure if the part numbers shown were OE ones or unique to the supplier and i never took note of them apart for the SS one from GS Valves V290 and V291. I'll have a look through my browsing history and see if the other sites i looked at are still there.....


Are the top of your valve stems getting a bit marked by the adjuster? have you thought about lash caps as solution?


Hope this is of some help, i off to feel sorry for myselfCRY

Damn nuisance busting a ring. SAD I sourced my rings from Eade Classic Allparts in Sydney. Speak to Bob. 02 9798 7822. Bob will need the oil control ring width (3.937mm) and bore (76mm). He must have a box of old original stock. I needed to gap the rings to fit the bore and I snipped off 2 coils (one at a time) of the expansion spring as the pressure was too tight to compress the ring into the bore. I ensured the pressure of the expansion spring was similar to the original.

Thanks for the valve info. TUP I have tried lash caps, however they need to be quite thin to fit so as not to foul the rocker arms and split cotters. More detective work required.

Time for a glass of icy cold beer as I am sure it cures more than just skinless fingers....worth a try. BBEER
 
Damn nuisance busting a ring. SAD I sourced my rings from Eade Classic Allparts in Sydney. Speak to Bob. 02 9798 7822. Bob will need the oil control ring width (3.937mm) and bore (76mm). He must have a box of old original stock. I needed to gap the rings to fit the bore and I snipped off 2 coils (one at a time) of the expansion spring as the pressure was too tight to compress the ring into the bore. I ensured the pressure of the expansion spring was similar to the original.

Thanks for the valve info. TUP I have tried lash caps, however they need to be quite thin to fit so as not to foul the rocker arms and split cotters. More detective work required.

Time for a glass of icy cold beer as I am sure it cures more than just skinless fingers....worth a try. BBEER

Thanks SD, I'll give Bob a call on Monday.

BTW, Just a got a reply from the Mini parts place in the UK (see below) and I've take a few pics of the valves and measurements if they are of any help.



"Hello Michael

Thanks for contacting us and sorry for the delay; we have been totally overwhelmed by the volume of email over the last few weeks and are finding it hard to keep up!

These look like they could be mini valves but we would not like to state that they definitely are! All mini valves have 7.1mm stems. 1275 valves measure 91mm overall whereas all others measure 87mm. Therefore I would suggest you look at the specs of the small bore valves.

Please follow these links and see whether you think these may be suitable: http://www.somerfordmini.co.uk/eshop/index.php?main_page=page&id=116

http://www.somerfordmini.co.uk/eshop/index.php?main_page=page&id=207&chapter=20

Hopefully some of these will be suitable!

Kind regards


Sales Team
Somerford Mini Ltd
www.somerfordmini.co.uk
T 01249 721421
F 01249 721316

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The good news about the valves has taken the sting out of breaking the piston ring (a little bit) and after going for a ride on the Thruxton (bit chilly still only 19 C today) i was ready to get back to the other jobs.

With the paint on the barrel,rocker covers and head having had a few days to dry i started cleaning up the fins. With the help of 120 grit flappy wheel it make quite quick work of getting the original look back. the quality of the finished castings are not great, with uneven edges,thickness of the fins and general roughness of the casting it will never be as good as todays milled finishes. This is the first stage and some hand finishing with various grades of emery and autosol should finish it of nicely.

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Hey SD, i meant to mention this before but forgot (was still grieving over the broken ring). On pulling the PRT's off the bottom o-ring was not an o-ring! it was one of these (see pic) as you noted in your post about getting the correct crush on the PRT's, the parts book lists the same part# for both top and bottom o-ring. i took the sample to my local Brit Bike shop to get some replacements. (forgot to get the part #) Now while i can't say 100% for sure, i really don't think my engine has been apart before so these may have been there from factory. Interestingly, the thickness is pretty much what you ended up with in your post:y92: the differences between the old and new may be due to age or my fingers....


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New seal and measurement and fitted.

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Needless to say once i get the head all cleaned up and assembled i'l check the crush and report accordingly.

To be continued......
 
Mike.

The square section PRT ring at the bottom is interesting and would be the original. Great that you were able to source replacements. The square section would have a larger sealing surface than an O ring and would potentially seal better. Another TSS detail I have learnt....Thanks.

Your barrels, head and rocker covers look fantastic.

Looking forward to the next installment. :y54:
 
Great project, and photos. Keep up the good work.

It does appear that you didn't spray heavily enough between some of ther finning, I see some bare aluminum in there...
 
It does appear that you didn't spray heavily enough between some of ther finning, I see some bare aluminum in there...

Paul,I could possibly be mistaken (very rare) but I think that is sanding dust highlighted by the camera flash that you are seeing.
 
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