EpicMale (Doc)
Active Member
Some dealerships have a policy: admit nothing until after you talk to the boss. <G> So I can't be too hard on the kid. But the response of his superiors was much more positive.
New Scrambler; New Problems
- Thread starter EpicMale (Doc)
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EpicMale (Doc)
Active Member
http://www.newbonneville.com/html/renntec_sports_rack.html
This appears to be a straightford bolt-on, and quite practical. Heck, it even come's in black. Scroll down for the Scrambler version in black...
This appears to be a straightford bolt-on, and quite practical. Heck, it even come's in black. Scroll down for the Scrambler version in black...
SOunds like your on the road to getting it sorted.
Well as long as the GM is with you it sounds like they will get it sorted
EpicMale (Doc)
Active Member
I'm probably premature, but I expected to get some sort of 'We made a report to Triumph' communication from the dealer. At least that is the way I run my company. Clients are kept apprised of each step of a project, or their complaint resolution (we have VERY few of those). So, just in case, I pulled out the big LED Maglite, dialed in my camera to manual focus, and took additional photos (plus some 1080i video) of the interior of my fuel tank. If I haven't heard something for them by the end of business Monday, then I'm going to send them the photos for 'your convenience, in case you didn't have a hi-res camera handy'. After all, the service manager had a flashlight that was so dim that it couldn't be seen in winter sun. And his comment, "I don't know if that is rust" still bothers me. Of course at that level, I shouldn't be expecting someone with very high skills within his type of job...otherwise he'd be heading up the service department at the Lexus dealership. LOL... Geez, the dude had a bull mastiff leashed to his desk, in imminent and constant danger of getting tangled up in a hodgepodge of computer wiring that looked like a drunk spider had woven into a mastiff trap.
EpicMale (Doc)
Active Member
I don't want to sound adversarial or sound like I'm telling them how to do business...at first. But I've already started the 'log', just in case. After all, they know what the danger of rust in the fuel system can be.
Do they if they did I would think they would jump and getting it sorted ASAP to avoid any further issues down the line
EpicMale (Doc)
Active Member
Update: After an email to the dealer asking about the status of my fuel tank problem, I got a reply. They stated that Triumph had authorized 'cleaning and treating' the rust spots. As one who has refurbished a number of old motorcycle fuel tanks, I had to ask them how they would clean and what they would use to treat. And, of course, I wonder if they suspect I might be able to examine the fuel tank in areas that they can't see. <G> Oh, yes, they suggested that this be performed at the 500 mile service. I believe I'm going to tell them that I'm old, decrepit, and that it might be many months into the future, so let's just address the rust now rather than wait for it to get worse and worse.
Should I reveal to these guys that I might be considered a master mechanic? I rebuilt my first engine when I was 11-12, and took over all maintenance on the family vehicles, tractors, small engines, etc when I was 12 or 13. When I was a kid I would buy motorcycles that were judged as nothing more than scrap at the junkyard, and have them up and running with just a few dollars invested, then turn around and sell them for a tidy profit. Back then I sold running motorcycles for sometimes as little as $10. I always profited and moved up to better and newer bikes. Heck, after a year or so, I was actually riding a bike that had a factory original paint job! LOL...
Oh, yes, during the intial inspection of my tank, a nearby mechanic stated that he had a tank that was nothing but rust inside, and all he had to do was stick an inline fuel filter on the bike and it ran just fine. Note to self: Do not let this gentleman near my bike. He is the one that failed to secure the seat. <G>
Should I reveal to these guys that I might be considered a master mechanic? I rebuilt my first engine when I was 11-12, and took over all maintenance on the family vehicles, tractors, small engines, etc when I was 12 or 13. When I was a kid I would buy motorcycles that were judged as nothing more than scrap at the junkyard, and have them up and running with just a few dollars invested, then turn around and sell them for a tidy profit. Back then I sold running motorcycles for sometimes as little as $10. I always profited and moved up to better and newer bikes. Heck, after a year or so, I was actually riding a bike that had a factory original paint job! LOL...
Oh, yes, during the intial inspection of my tank, a nearby mechanic stated that he had a tank that was nothing but rust inside, and all he had to do was stick an inline fuel filter on the bike and it ran just fine. Note to self: Do not let this gentleman near my bike. He is the one that failed to secure the seat. <G>
I'd pretend to be the hard nosed customer who'll be giving them problems from this day on if it isn't replaced but remember what I said in an early post in this thread,
"if you don't get satisfaction, relax don't let this spoil your day after all it's going to take many many many years before it creates a problem and most of us don't hold on to our bikes that long. I've seen some very rusty tanks on the inside that still hold petrol".
Be a cranky old fart on the outside and laugh at them on the inside.
"if you don't get satisfaction, relax don't let this spoil your day after all it's going to take many many many years before it creates a problem and most of us don't hold on to our bikes that long. I've seen some very rusty tanks on the inside that still hold petrol".
Be a cranky old fart on the outside and laugh at them on the inside.
I agree with the above - get a new tank. It is a new bike; it should have a new, proper tank.
EpicMale (Doc)
Active Member
I'm still waiting on them to tell me HOW they propose to 'repair' the tank. I've done this...it is not easy! And the results can be somewhat problematic if you just barely shave the edge off one corner of the process. I suspect they might have envisioned some cosmetic coverup. However, I have let them know that I am extremely far from a newbie. Heck, I've built bikes and vehicles from the ground up, including making my own frames! But I was lazy and only rebuilt engines...never did get around to casting my own blocks for my own design. LOL...Guess I'm just lazy.
Anyway, I've been down this road with both motorcycle and automotive dealerships. But at my age, their responses are rather predictable. Neither the service advisor nor the mechanic have been trained at all by management (which means management has no real training, or they have gotten complacent and do no apply it). One does NOT immediately challenge a customer's statement ("I don't know if that is rust"..."I've had rust in my tank for years, I just stuck a filter on it). The first statement was made by the service advisor; the second, the somewhat tattered mechanic. Geez, boys, you make the effort to make the customer confident that you are a problem solver, not a person that is going into defensive/siege mode! LOL... How about, "Sir, rust is always a serious problem, especially on a brand new motorcycle. I am going to call Triumph right now and we will get this resolved!" Of course, after examination, he might say, "Sir, you dodged a bullet! We discovered that what appeared to be rust was actually a reddish sealant we use on the tank's internal seams. It could have fooled anyone!" In reality, this is NOT a sealant, but actual rust. But you understand my point...perhaps I ought to start a training seminar for motorcycle service advisors.... When I owned my own automotive service many years ago, I never, ever put myself in a verbal position of butting heads with a customer! I didn't get sued, either! <G>
Ok, because of their tardiness, I'm moving to Stage Two. I'm taking the motorcycle to a licensed master mechanic, who is also a certfied State Inspector. Together we are going to document the rust with hi-res photos, which I will print and attach to his dated and signed sworn, notarized, statement detailing his professional analysis of the condition of the interior of the fuel tank. He will verify the odometer mileage and inspect the odometer seals to insure that there hasn't been any funny business in that regard.
Rather than diddle about nibbling at the edges, when I detect a retailer/manufacturer's stonewall position, failing to own up to their written contract (published and implied warranties in this case, I behave like a good, cooperative, consumer...up until I whip out all the documentation and get to work with the big hammer. I also document all the time and money that it required to get them to honor their own contract. Can we all say 'freebies' together? <G>
For instance, 30 years ago I went in to buy a new truck. I was known locally as a fairly hardnosed horsetrader, so the dealership owner decided he woud give me a lesson on how to deal with potential customers of my ilk. I picked out a truck that fit my needs, then sat down with the owner to work on the price (yeah, like I pay MSRP! Lol...) and terms. He actually pretended to talk to Ford Credit on the phone. But I have rather acute hearing...and I could hear the person on the other end of the line in his earlier phone conversations with his sales manager...but NO ONE was talking during his conversation with Ford Credit!
So, with a straight face, I sat there and listened to his monolog, nodding along with him as he extolled the success of my young company and my honesty and work ethic. He asked me for $5K down on a $14K new truck! I told him I would have to talk to my wife about it. She was sitting right next to me. He jumped up and left the room to give us 'privacy'. The second a salesman says a keyword, such as 'privacy', I go on alert. He left the office, closing the door behind him. I stated in a normal voice that I didn't want to dip that deeply into our savings, because we only had $6500 in the bank. That number was purely ficticious. I had three times that in the bank! I had to keep a good chunk of money around to fund my clients projects in a quick, orderly, manner. Small busnesses should operate as much as possible upon their own captital and cash flow...not someone else's money.
The owner returned, with a hang dog look on his face, "Oh, I'm so sorry. Ford Credit called back and after running a credit check, they want $6,500 down." I think my smile confused him as he resumed his position behind his desk. I told him that I would pay $12,500 for the truck, put $500 down, and pay 3% interest for 24 months. Oh, my, did that upset him! Those were terms he just could not meet. Well, at least that is what he said until I told him that we could sign the contract right now or I was calling a friend in the DA's office, because I had proof that he had been listening into my private conversation with my wife. He tried to bluster his way out of this serious violation of the law. He asserted that it was his office and his phone and he could record anything he wanted in it. I corrected him..."Only as long as YOU are part of the recording. The second you stepped out of your office, offering my wife and I privacy, you violated state and federal wiretap laws." So, I got the truck slightly over true invoice, at half the usual interest rate, and with less than half the usual downpayment. I bought another dozen or so trucks from the same dealership in subsequent years. I was always treated well, and most importantly better than just 'fair'. I only paid slightly above true invoice (but I still did my research), because I could never, ever, trust him again. But then, until now, I didn't go telling the story about his dishonesty. Of course these days I'm not as patient, nor as tolerant. LOL...
Anyway, I've been down this road with both motorcycle and automotive dealerships. But at my age, their responses are rather predictable. Neither the service advisor nor the mechanic have been trained at all by management (which means management has no real training, or they have gotten complacent and do no apply it). One does NOT immediately challenge a customer's statement ("I don't know if that is rust"..."I've had rust in my tank for years, I just stuck a filter on it). The first statement was made by the service advisor; the second, the somewhat tattered mechanic. Geez, boys, you make the effort to make the customer confident that you are a problem solver, not a person that is going into defensive/siege mode! LOL... How about, "Sir, rust is always a serious problem, especially on a brand new motorcycle. I am going to call Triumph right now and we will get this resolved!" Of course, after examination, he might say, "Sir, you dodged a bullet! We discovered that what appeared to be rust was actually a reddish sealant we use on the tank's internal seams. It could have fooled anyone!" In reality, this is NOT a sealant, but actual rust. But you understand my point...perhaps I ought to start a training seminar for motorcycle service advisors.... When I owned my own automotive service many years ago, I never, ever put myself in a verbal position of butting heads with a customer! I didn't get sued, either! <G>
Ok, because of their tardiness, I'm moving to Stage Two. I'm taking the motorcycle to a licensed master mechanic, who is also a certfied State Inspector. Together we are going to document the rust with hi-res photos, which I will print and attach to his dated and signed sworn, notarized, statement detailing his professional analysis of the condition of the interior of the fuel tank. He will verify the odometer mileage and inspect the odometer seals to insure that there hasn't been any funny business in that regard.
Rather than diddle about nibbling at the edges, when I detect a retailer/manufacturer's stonewall position, failing to own up to their written contract (published and implied warranties in this case, I behave like a good, cooperative, consumer...up until I whip out all the documentation and get to work with the big hammer. I also document all the time and money that it required to get them to honor their own contract. Can we all say 'freebies' together? <G>
For instance, 30 years ago I went in to buy a new truck. I was known locally as a fairly hardnosed horsetrader, so the dealership owner decided he woud give me a lesson on how to deal with potential customers of my ilk. I picked out a truck that fit my needs, then sat down with the owner to work on the price (yeah, like I pay MSRP! Lol...) and terms. He actually pretended to talk to Ford Credit on the phone. But I have rather acute hearing...and I could hear the person on the other end of the line in his earlier phone conversations with his sales manager...but NO ONE was talking during his conversation with Ford Credit!
So, with a straight face, I sat there and listened to his monolog, nodding along with him as he extolled the success of my young company and my honesty and work ethic. He asked me for $5K down on a $14K new truck! I told him I would have to talk to my wife about it. She was sitting right next to me. He jumped up and left the room to give us 'privacy'. The second a salesman says a keyword, such as 'privacy', I go on alert. He left the office, closing the door behind him. I stated in a normal voice that I didn't want to dip that deeply into our savings, because we only had $6500 in the bank. That number was purely ficticious. I had three times that in the bank! I had to keep a good chunk of money around to fund my clients projects in a quick, orderly, manner. Small busnesses should operate as much as possible upon their own captital and cash flow...not someone else's money.
The owner returned, with a hang dog look on his face, "Oh, I'm so sorry. Ford Credit called back and after running a credit check, they want $6,500 down." I think my smile confused him as he resumed his position behind his desk. I told him that I would pay $12,500 for the truck, put $500 down, and pay 3% interest for 24 months. Oh, my, did that upset him! Those were terms he just could not meet. Well, at least that is what he said until I told him that we could sign the contract right now or I was calling a friend in the DA's office, because I had proof that he had been listening into my private conversation with my wife. He tried to bluster his way out of this serious violation of the law. He asserted that it was his office and his phone and he could record anything he wanted in it. I corrected him..."Only as long as YOU are part of the recording. The second you stepped out of your office, offering my wife and I privacy, you violated state and federal wiretap laws." So, I got the truck slightly over true invoice, at half the usual interest rate, and with less than half the usual downpayment. I bought another dozen or so trucks from the same dealership in subsequent years. I was always treated well, and most importantly better than just 'fair'. I only paid slightly above true invoice (but I still did my research), because I could never, ever, trust him again. But then, until now, I didn't go telling the story about his dishonesty. Of course these days I'm not as patient, nor as tolerant. LOL...
New tank, new tank, new tank..........only solution.
Amazes me they are arguing it. It would cost less to them to just replace the tank. The time (time is money) to "fix" the tank plus (assuming they clean and then coat the interior) the chemicals etc. etc. etc. I am certain would be way more than the dealers cost on a new tank, AND I would think they could return said tank to Triumph---if not for a refund at least for "brownie points" on catching a potential problem.
Seriously what is with people? Making something so simple such a giant "cluster F***"
We all make mistakes, the tank is obviously bad, own up fix it ---move on.
We are reprinting 95 shirts today, because our artist misspelled the word anniversary ---no body caught it-- 6 people AFTER the artist (Including myself) looked at the design, or the screens, or the finished t-shirt job.......no body caught it.
We did not consult anyone, give them the run around or offer a "patch" or quick fix. We overnighted shirts, we are stopping all other production to get these shirts out for the customers deadline at noon today, and we are MAKING
on our mistake. Thats just what you do. We are all human we all make mistakes, its how we HANDLE those mistakes that seperates the "Men from the Boys" so to speak........and Doc I think you are dealing some "Boys". Hope they get a clue soon.
Amazes me they are arguing it. It would cost less to them to just replace the tank. The time (time is money) to "fix" the tank plus (assuming they clean and then coat the interior) the chemicals etc. etc. etc. I am certain would be way more than the dealers cost on a new tank, AND I would think they could return said tank to Triumph---if not for a refund at least for "brownie points" on catching a potential problem.
Seriously what is with people? Making something so simple such a giant "cluster F***"
We all make mistakes, the tank is obviously bad, own up fix it ---move on.
We are reprinting 95 shirts today, because our artist misspelled the word anniversary ---no body caught it-- 6 people AFTER the artist (Including myself) looked at the design, or the screens, or the finished t-shirt job.......no body caught it.
We did not consult anyone, give them the run around or offer a "patch" or quick fix. We overnighted shirts, we are stopping all other production to get these shirts out for the customers deadline at noon today, and we are MAKING
on our mistake. Thats just what you do. We are all human we all make mistakes, its how we HANDLE those mistakes that seperates the "Men from the Boys" so to speak........and Doc I think you are dealing some "Boys". Hope they get a clue soon.
Good going on the T,s
EpicMale (Doc)
Active Member
Sounds as if we do business the same way. Way back in early college, I worked for a small print shop. We did silk screened T-shirts, also. Now and then on some print job, even though the customer had signed off on a proof, a misspelled word was found after the job was done. My employer had the same attitude as you. In his mind, we were the 'professionals' and ultimately reponsible for how the ink went onto the paper, or cloth, and how it looked when complete. So we routinely threw out stuff with errors and printed it again. In some cases, the customer never even knew about it.
It seems that these days a lot of folks don't realize what was a standard axiom of my generation: One disatisfied customer can wipe out the public relations benefit of a 1000 satisfied customers. Now that doesn't mean that you bend over and submit to every irrational demand of anyone that walks in the front door. But one should be able to deal with a client or customer that has a problem and have them walk away feeling that they were treated fairly. Sometimes that takes educating and 'grooming' the customer, because some have unrealistic expectations. But these days it is hard to get literate employees that can actually make change without use of a calculator (if you are lucky enough to find one that can operate a calculator!). LOL....
It seems that these days a lot of folks don't realize what was a standard axiom of my generation: One disatisfied customer can wipe out the public relations benefit of a 1000 satisfied customers. Now that doesn't mean that you bend over and submit to every irrational demand of anyone that walks in the front door. But one should be able to deal with a client or customer that has a problem and have them walk away feeling that they were treated fairly. Sometimes that takes educating and 'grooming' the customer, because some have unrealistic expectations. But these days it is hard to get literate employees that can actually make change without use of a calculator (if you are lucky enough to find one that can operate a calculator!). LOL....
