Commander Starting Issues

[2WheelersUnited]

Hi all. I just acquired my first Triumph, a 2014 Thunderbird Commander that I got from my father in law after sitting in a shed for over a year (the bike, not my FIL). I'm having some (I think) unique ignition issues. I'll try to describe it here and go over my diagnostics thus far.

initially, the bike was missing a starter. Ordered the part, bench tested it -turned just fine. Installed it, hit the start button, and *CLUNK*. SH*T. Pulled it, cleaned brushes, reinstalled, and again, *CLUNK*.
New Battery, voltage is fine, doesn't drop below 12.5 volts. Pulled the handlebar controls and cleaned the contacts on the starter switch and the clutch switch. Tested voltage at the solenoid, and I get full battery voltage when I press the starter.
Next, I had the idea to jumper the starter motor solenoid directly from the battery, and it fired right up!
Back to the starter button, and still CLUNK CLUNK CLUNK.
I've done my best to trace wiring and check for shorts, but I think the manual posted here is slightly different than my bike. There is an "extra" relay that appears to be for the headlights, and the ecu Pinout is very different - 2 plugs, both black, with 3 rows of pins, not the black and grey connections like in the manual.
I did find a short in the position light circuit, but that's been repaired. I also did the pin point test for the ecm and starter relay - again, as best I could figure because the pin numbers are different than in the manual. The ONLY slight issue is a reading of .1 ohms on the ecm pin b15 to ground... Not even enough to "beep" my ddm, but it gets a reading other than "OL". But when I remove the relay, it goes away. I tried a new relay, and still there.

Is my ECU shot? Am I missing something obvious? I'm still thrown off since the starter runs and the bike will run when I jump the starter solenoid.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[2WheelersUnited]

Oh, I should add that I tried hooking up my generic OBD2 reader to see if there's any codes, which is unlikely, but the reader said something along the lines of "no communication with ECU" or something similar. Downloaded TuneECU but can't get it to connect to my reader, yet.

 

[Arrowbear rider]

Oh, I should add that I tried hooking up my generic OBD2 reader to see if there's any codes, which is unlikely, but the reader said something along the lines of "no communication with ECU" or something similar. Downloaded TuneECU but can't get it to connect to my reader, yet.

My understanding is the Commander requires a Triumph tool to read that only the dealers have and it looks like you've gone farther in to it than I'm capable so I can only wise you good luck at this point. I had the same clunking sound from a short off the battery, but it was an easy fix from a trickle charger's connection cable that shorted from the quick connect plug next to the painted frame, not a lose wire, it was that touchy if that helps at all.

 

[Qship]

The ECU in the Commanders and T'bird LT are locked and can only be altered or accessed by a dealer as far as I know.
How many miles and what's the overall condition of your bike? Did your FIL look after it fairly well?
My T'bird did have a faulty start button that would work intermittantly and was replaced under warranty when I had that bike.
Where you bypassed the starter solenoid and the bike started, is it possible the solenoid is bad or have you tested that as well?

 

[2WheelersUnited]

Thanks for the questions. That's depressing that the Commander is "locked". I have never messed with mapping or more complicated matters in the ECU, but hopefully I can still get in to pull codes, reset MIL, turn off the service light after oil change, etc...

As for the condition of the bike, my FIL took good care of it. Unfortunately, he left it at his home when he was travelling for the better part of the year. Some tweakers (presumably) broke into his shed and stole a bunch of stuff. He thinks they used the headlight of the Triumph for light in the shed and they left the ignition on. Someone else started pulling parts off the bike. After going over it, it appears they only got the starter motor and battery and a few nuts and bolts - hence why I had to buy a replacement starter/battery. The rest of the bike appears intact and functioning. He moved the bike to a friends house where it sat for another year and fell over in the mud during a rain storm when the ground beneath the kickstand gave way. I had to rescue it because I couldn't stand the thought of letting it sit and rot away. The odometer reads 16,000 miles, but I think the wheel sensors went out a while ago. Father in law clams closer to 30k miles. Would a failed speed sensor mean the odometer doesn't change?

When I used a jump wire to start the bike, I went directly from the battery terminal to the "S" terminal (small signal wire) on the solenoid - I didn't bypass it. I only effectively bypassed the switches, starter relay, and ECM. I subsequently jumpered from battery power to pin 5 on the starter relay, and it started up. This tells me that everything "downstream" from the relay is fine.

What I know works: Battery, starter solenoid, starter motor.
What I'm fairly certain works: starter switch and clutch switch - full battery voltage is sent to the starter signal wire when it's detached from the starter solenoid.

The fault lies somewhere within the ECM and/or the relay..but the relay clicks and sends power to the solenoid if only for a split second, then when under load "something" cuts power - I'm guessing the ECM. The question is why...and is there anything I can do to remedy it. could this also be a short somewhere? Shorting only when under load?

My final resort option is to wire in a new relay bypassing the ECM and the stock starter relay. This would allow me to start the bike but would also delete the neutral/sidestand/clutch safety. I could live with that, but prefer stock setup if at all possible.

 

[Qship]

Think only recourse may be to get it to a dealer to see maybe whats wrong, if anything in the ECM. Is that possible for you? Shouldn't cost to much to be hooked up. That may solve alot of issues for you.
Yes the odometer and speedo get their signal from the rear abs sensor.

 

[2WheelersUnited]

Update:
After hours of troubleshooting and tracing wires to find any issues, I said eff it and spent 50 bucks on a cheapo Amazon battery, and wouldn't you know it, it started right up! My previous battery tested fine, I even had it jumped to a car battery to ensure it was getting enough juice... But I guess she wasn't happy with that. Lesson learned, these bikes REALLY are that finicky with their battery.
Also, I grabbed tuneECU and OBDLink MX+ and was able to pull codes and erase the litany of errors. So for anyone looking to read the ecu on a '14 Commander, I can say that TuneECU WILL WORK!
All I have left to do now is a new rear tire and replace the rear wheel speed sensor.
Good fortune!

 

[Qship]

Good news. Those belts are fussy to line up to avoid the dreaded belt chirp. Good luck.

 

[2WheelersUnited]

This is a pretty good walkthrough.

View: https://youtu.be/iiowCyX-eWE

He makes it look easy... But since this is my first belt bike, I'm sure it will give me some trouble.

 

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