What aluminum alloy is used to weld the side case of my X75 Hurricane?
- Thread starter Hurricanerider
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That inner case , looks like its been welded before, from the Pic.
16 thousandth of an inch is not much , but it looked much more in the Pic.
Which side is the Crank alined from, to centre the crank from ?
I know vertical split cases, have to be bolted up , after the barrel is bolted up first, then loosened.
To allow the cases to be up together.
This is one of the reasons , if not done in the right order., that " Engines put together, don't stay together ".
The Centre Cylinder Stud Holes also had a fault , that the thread was not deep enough.
And I know of 2 people , who had endless trouble with loose head bolts. The so called experts , just kept throwing gaskets at it. Solution was simple.
Same goes for spring washers on rocker stems.
A Ducati Style , Rocker Adjuster is a great idea , half moon and Allen Key system.
Chris
Hurricanerider
Active Member
The rod cap and crank spun and gouged aluminum. No other welds. The crank is centered by the the bearings on each end of the crank. Each bearing is fit between two snap rings. The timing side is stock so it keeps the crank where it was from original position. I’ll have to bolt it together to see if the .016 removed the thrust in the crank. The only fix I can try is grind the inside radius on the bearing using a dummy shaft to spin the bearing in the lathe and grind the radius on the crank with the wheel radiused to match the crank. The other fix is make a gasket. The motor doesn’t use a gasket from the factory. A gasket might leak.
The only leak was around the rocker box cover. That was fixed. After that, the motor didn’t have any leaks in the 4000+ miles.
Question, are the only people replying to my post, the only people seeing it? Like you said, racing these motors made them develop into refined machines. I’m sure this isn’t the first case we’re thrust needed to be increased.
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Others are reading the posts, just not commenting.
And I would be one of those.
I follow the thread, but rarely comment. Very interesting to read and admire the skill being shown
I love watching an artist at work.
I came to the conclusion a long time ago that there are a lot smarter and more skilled people than me.I am in awe of some of the skills and talents often shown here.
I'm just talking , the talents in that big workshop.
I am in awe of some of the skills and talents often shown here.
Someone who takes the time to teach 50 young ones , is training Presidents for Gilligan's Island,
Should it come to that.
Chris
I believe there is a number quoted , on the forum of the number who have the post.
If you want more , there are numerous Facebook sites , just waiting for you.
There are particular sites set up in the states for historic bikes , might have the links there.
In particular , I've see sites for racers and sponsors and mechanics , who were part of that seen.
But best if you find the "eggs" that work for you.
If you want to use the info we have placed here , on another site. Well that's up to this site here. Copy Write and all that stuff.
Chris
AMEN!
I am in awe of some of the skills and talents often shown here.
Hurricanerider
Active Member
I asked only if the post was open to others to see if this post was exclusively for my Hurricane. Meaning, unless someone is interested in a Hurricane, they would type Hurricane and then see this post. I’ve never posted anything like this before. This was for others to use the info to repair a case. This idea was just in my head, thought it might work, and made it. It worked, I got lucky! Now I’m just throwing out ideas to increase thrust if .016 took too much away.
I won’t be searching other sites or FB for help.
I’ll put the crank in and see from there what I have to do.
If I was not heavily involved in:
A - Moving from Laredo, TX to Leander, TX (280 miles) with my pickup & 6x12 box trailer (35-year married couple with 2 school-age children and a lifetime of collecting stuff)
B - Doing various heavily labor-intensive chores in the new house (minor remodel & major yard work)
C - Just acquired TWO Quicksilver ultralight aircraft that need repair & assembly before I can even THINK about flying (it's a long story)
and
D - Only 1/4 done with our annual almost-back-to-back Mother's Day (2 weeks ago), wyfe's birthday (this weekend), Anniversary (next weekend), and Father's Day (not long after that
...I would be much more involved in discussion about this absolutely amazing case repair project thread! Without undue modesty, I am NOWHERE NEAR this level of skill sets. Way farther across the spectrum in the "shade tree mechanic" area, really...
"Keep it up" is all I can say.
A - Moving from Laredo, TX to Leander, TX (280 miles) with my pickup & 6x12 box trailer (35-year married couple with 2 school-age children and a lifetime of collecting stuff)
B - Doing various heavily labor-intensive chores in the new house (minor remodel & major yard work)
C - Just acquired TWO Quicksilver ultralight aircraft that need repair & assembly before I can even THINK about flying (it's a long story)
and
D - Only 1/4 done with our annual almost-back-to-back Mother's Day (2 weeks ago), wyfe's birthday (this weekend), Anniversary (next weekend), and Father's Day (not long after that
...I would be much more involved in discussion about this absolutely amazing case repair project thread! Without undue modesty, I am NOWHERE NEAR this level of skill sets. Way farther across the spectrum in the "shade tree mechanic" area, really...
"Keep it up" is all I can say.
I am afraid to say this , after all this discussion and I understand , that something so open as discussing what you have done for others to we. Laying bear the faults down and the discussing them is not what many men would do. Others who have gone through such jobs , and your not the first. Will appreciate how easy it is to make mistakes.
Those who would criticise one for what that person see as critical errors. Have either never attempted such feats , or failed to understand , that sometimes one learns massive increases in abilities by failure. Only true men can admit there failures , and learn from it.
That's why we have , bike wreckers and avid collectors , someone sometime will need a replacement old part to restore .
You may need one for a various reasons.
Ie:
Part over softened due to overheating all over.
The " Army Way ".
Its to short in length.
Its not square anymore.
Its to buckled.
But then we maybe able to restore it , if there is sufficient metal still there.
I to don't normal get so involved , but you did bear a bit and so let's continue.
The alignment or datum line , has to be at the start the Barrel to Crankcase interface. As the Barrel and its centre lines for pistons and cams , is critical. Its one of the reasons the barrel is a lump of Iron.
So when it is bolted up , the cases are tightened to it first.
So by matching off , 16 thou , the case will have a 16 thou gap , minimum along its face to where it should be.
These are the things , that I workout on either side of " Rem " sleep , I think!.
It may be more or less at different parts. This is irrespective of the how the crankshaft lines up. If you think about it , using the Crankshaft as the Datum line , may have been fine in the Drawing Office of BSA in 1964 , when "Dug Hele" put down the first penstrokes, in unpaid overtime, when him and his fellow work friends conceived and built the first one , in 3 and 4 cylinder designs. All secretly without the managements knowledge or permission.
See it wasn't just Harley Davidson who had Crap Management , though nothing could have been worse than Harley's at the time!.
So it is possible to make a plate , that will make up the gap , that the side crankcase may have.
Or.
It may , all things being equal to use a Gasket , to "pack" the Gap.
If it is either , may I suggest , "location ferrules" , through the bolt through bolt points , and that the bolts used , are truly round (concentric).
The problem maybe solved this way.
I would welcome , anyone who can add or improve on this theoretical approach.
We have a swap meet supplier in Canberra , ACT , who may have a replacement part. And if needed , I can contact him. But as most triples went to America , and we get them , in the past , from there. Then there should be hundreds over there on shelf's somewhere.!
I think the new Triumphs , are a wonderful piece of machinery. Especially the Twins! Sticking to there rootes of the 30's to 70's era. To not upset anyone , the 3's also.
It must be great to "blissfully" just push the button and not have an incline of the mastery of how it all churns around.
Unfortunately , I invested heavily in some Japanese stuff , and so I only have the one going triumph. But I'm not complaining.!
But when you do get it going reliable , then you will have something to be proud of.
And I do hope , you are able to assemble it into a technical blog and link it to Triumph sites , throughout the world. So others , in similar predictement. Don't have to reinvent the wheel. Otherwise , I would consider that a great waste , as in 20 years , on reflection , I wasted my time on a small solution. Where I could have spent my time ....elsewhere.
So good luck and keep this group posted.
Chris
"C" sounds interesting , saw a resent start of a Documentary of two guys , flying across Australia recently in Ultra Light's. I was amazed!!
Melbourne to Perth , done in stages , to assimilate with there holidays.
But also see , the crash rate among ultralights and handgliders is a bit high.
But love to learn more , when you got time !!!
You Ex Army guys , sure live a good lifestyle.
Chris
Hurricanerider
Active Member
I thank you and others for your compliments on my luck. My belief is, if I can do it so can you, and I’ve shown people 70+ yrs they can do it and have fun. Seeing anyone any age make a part and enjoy their experience is the only reward I need. That’s why I will teach anyone for free.
Now back to “our” issue. Chris has brought up an issue I had not thought of because I wasn’t starting the build yet, just fixing the cracked case.
Well I attempted to set the cylinders down on the
Bolts and as Chris noted, the the removal of .016 does interfere with the bolts. Damn your good Chris, you are thinking ahead.
In the following picture, see the 3 bolts that have a larger diameter base than the single 4th bolt. The 3 act as body bound or dowels to locate and keep the cylinders locked in place.
My solution in buy a .015 sheet of aluminum material, outline the case, transfer the hole pattern, and cut it to fit. Granger has it and I sent emails for SS. Wow, that’s a lot of cutting!!!!!
The other fix is make new studs to the thread diameter and machine, not sure what to call them, (sleeves) offset .008, to the size of the holes in the cylinders. This has to be done in order to assemble with the cylinders or some form of a shim/gasket. Depending on the reduced thrust in the crank, a shim use or grinding on the face of the crank where the bearing rides against, to add back thrust, is my options.
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Chris, that is a very insightful reply and so true.
I have never done one "key element" restoration to the fractional degree that our triple friend (I haven't yet seen his name, or I must have missed it) has done here. As you say, it should become a reference piece for the healthy future of classic Triumph (and BSA) triples for all time to come. Especially as the days will come that these parts are no longer available and the originals that survive must be dealt with in order to keep the beasts growling for future generations.
So to attention, lads; and salute our intrepid machinist of note, on this glorious day!!!
I have never done one "key element" restoration to the fractional degree that our triple friend (I haven't yet seen his name, or I must have missed it) has done here. As you say, it should become a reference piece for the healthy future of classic Triumph (and BSA) triples for all time to come. Especially as the days will come that these parts are no longer available and the originals that survive must be dealt with in order to keep the beasts growling for future generations.
So to attention, lads; and salute our intrepid machinist of note, on this glorious day!!!
Hurricanerider
Active Member
Grandpaul, my name is Art Wallace. I’ve been trained by gentlemen from across the pond who where in the 60’s to 80’s when I was in my late teens and early 20’s. I bugged them with questions how or why they machined it that way. They took me under their wings and taught me not just to machine, but to be a master mechanic, machining, welding, fabrication, and design. As a result, I rebuild bikes, believing if someone built it, I will too! I’m so anal about precision that I build to perfection. That’s why it takes me longer.
Example, every bolt, washer, but, and mild steel parts minus a couple, on the Hurricane is now 316 SS. The bolt flats and faces are polished to mirror finishes. Why, because I’m able to do it and I want to make my bikes beautiful. I have respect for the designers, machinist, mold makers, tool & die makes, along with the assemblers who built the bikes. Having spent time in these trades and seeing the caliber of people in these trades, I’m humbled to be part of it.
I buy a used bike and tear it apart and remove all the previous owners neglect before I ride the in public. My latest 95’ Sprint.
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Its nice to know a name.
The internet is full of animosity.
My name is Chris Thomson , I am from across the Pond.
However , I have taken a similar course , but done it via TAFE.
Some of the best machinists , unfortunately are building model steam engines.
And cannot be bended. !!!
Every time I go back to the Old Dark , I find the skills are completely disappeared.
It started to go in the 60's , when Harold Wilson Prime Minister promised the 50,000 workers at A.E.I. at Old Trafford , the biggest Industrial Complex in Europe , that there jobs were secure. 10 years later they were all gone.
Mainly to Japan.
It was such a waste.
My first apprenticeship went the same way...just no further contracts.
Take overseas and more take overs, as businesses became just Assets.
So Alan , you may enjoy doing this , in your spare time.
But please keep this in mind.
When a accident happens , or you reach retirement age.
It is important to have a set of savings that means you can travel around like the Staff at TT seem able, and enjoy retirement.
So consider making something for Triumphs , that is sellable.
Example being , stainless parts for Triples.
Others are doing similar , but please , don't let that put u off.
As for 8''' off set fowls, that doesn't seem very thick, and any side force I could see them just collapse ing.
When alloy welding , sometimes!es its best to just tack it together , clean it, weld 1/2 inch, stop let it cool, wait , then another 1/2 inch elsewhere , let it cool, wait , Repeat , Repeat...Patience's goes a long way.
Do a good job , and motorcyclists will be at your door , every weekend, requesting you assistant's for their classic.
If only I listened to my own advise, all those years ago.!!
Chris
16'''' is not very thick, I wonder if it might move or even try to spit its self out of the Case's. Perhaps if you make it a lot wider than the case width would help. On the inside no one to be able to see it of course! Make it wider on the outside and trim it down....after final assembly. On the inside at the bottom , it would need to not restrict oil return flow.
To see how much room there is on the inside, place plastercine , I think other places other than England, call it modelling clay... As the crank, Rod and Cams are turned over , it will scrap off excess. But also remember that , the Cranks and Cams use to flex quite abit when revving. A lot of people would not know, but the British designers new the limitations of the cranks. And designed them to flex , so the would not break or crack the cases.
A lot is owed to early design stuff, bikes would not be where they are to day, without all the time and effort of the Past.
Its amazing to find out all the knowledge gained in the 20's , 30's , and 40's in the Aircraft design industry , especially on Engines. There's very little new in design , that hasn't been invented in the pioneering times!
I have met just a couple of designers / fitters from them times , their knowledge was very special.
Also a splash cup , at the end of the camshaft holds some oil for the can bush is really useful. If the bush is only splash fed. On the Norton ,, a friendly Dentist is needed or a Nurse at a Hospital. We use Amalgam , its a tooth filler. Been tried and tested many times , These are the knowledge based friendships , that come from , " One Make Clubs " , but like Bigamy , you can be a member of lots of clubs!
Chris
