Various Issues And Info Seeking T140V.

[jonboy]

January1977 T140V ... The bike has been stopped for about ten years, and was just left in a barn , with no lay-up, still petrol in the tank, and probably quietly leaking into the left carb anyway as it was on its side stand, and evaporating away..
so both carbs blocked, float bowls full of resin and silts..... I have a Haynes manual , and a pdf Triumph official one....I think I'm just about to answer my first question so I'll turn it an observation.
the serial number, two letters five numbers is probably numerically sequential, but I got hopelessly lost thinking for instance that my number AP 80932, is earlier than KH 17124, when the Triumph manual starts. till I saw the meaning of the letters, but when I was looking at wiring diagrams in Haynes that said 'from number DU **** i thought they weren't right. the moral is properly. even the almost invisible lines on a pdf.
So I've just figured the bike is +ve earth, which I hadn't thought and connected up the battery wrong as just about every vehicle I've ever owned in the last fifty years has been negative earth.
Will I have screwed anything connecting the battery the wrong way?
I have a healthy spark , and as the manual suggests the the battery is just for low tension stuff and you can start the bike with a dead battery as the alternator provides the juice., but I've not got it running yet so can't check the charging side of things.
I don't have an owners manual, the workshop manuals assume you know what everything does or is for, so,
question. ... the red light on the headlamp comes on strong when I turn the ignition on but even if I really gently tread the kick it goes off , when I kick as if im trying to start it stays off, even when I have the good healthy spark at the plugs. Is it oil pressure light, ? whats the middle , orange light for. whats the green one for. The left switch cluster is obvious, even written Horn , Hi LO etc and The toggle switch on the headlamp is only main lights switch, no?
what are the two buttons on the right handle bar switch cluster. no names. what position is the big flat red switch, I'm guessing Kill switch, in to run. Either position I still have the spark. These are easily solvable at this stage with a good clean and contact spray,
Next. Both carbs completely dismantled and cleaned, reassembled, but note one float was completely encrusted with the resiny varnish deposits, but believe me now its seems fine, no leaks ,
I was surprised at the lack of possible adjustment to the float setting... I've had carbs where the specifications are critical and height is adjustable by bending brass strips or similar. and measuring the level with straight edge and feeler guage. The concentrics appear to have no way to adjust the level, and I am getting one carb flooding, and the other not flooding even with the tickler depressed.
so strip down again, and one float bowl has the brass plug the needle valves seats against 1mm shorter than the other, and one has an approx 1.mm hole the other about 2mm or so. both needles and floats are in good condition, and the difference in 1mm float needle seat is compensated by the hi-tech method of 'tapping it a bit' (Haynes)... Huh??
Oh one other thing for now.... two petrol taps, two carbs, one balance pipe with banjo unions between the carbs. so why two taps? should they both be on, ? or switch from one to the other? thanks in advance....

 

[grandpaul]

Welcome to the forum!

You sure ask a lot of questions! hee hee

DU serial number prefix are for 1968 and older models, so not the same lettering as the '69 and later.

You'll get a good long reply with a bunch of answers from @Rudie here in a few minutes...

 

[Rudie]

January1977 T140V
my number AP 80932, is earlier than KH 17124,
wiring diagrams in Haynes that said 'from number DU ****

The "AP" on your bike means "the January (A) of the 1977 (P) model year" but "KH" means "the September (K) of the 1973 (H) model year". "P" being after "H" in the alphabet, AP 80932 is later than KH 17124.

Otoh, "DU" is not a date code, it was used between the beginning of the 1963 model year and October 1968 (in the 1969 model year) just to denote a 650 (Triumph's Meriden works prefixed 500 and 350 twins' numbers with "H").

Aside:-

. The 1969 model year began in July 1968 so the DU prefix was used during roughly the first three months, when Meriden built over 4,000 650's (and over 2000 500's using the H prefix).

. Always remember "model year" is not always calendar year - while your T140V's "January 1977" is the calendar month and year, the 1973 model year began in calendar August 1972, so KH is September (K) but the calendar year is 1972.

. Triumph first used the date code in calendar October 1968, in the 1969 model year; so the first date code was "NC" - "the October (N) of the 1969 (C) model year".

the serial number, two letters five numbers is probably numerically sequential,

Only within one or two model years:-

. The first date code and serial number was NC00100 but that number sequence was only used until the end of the 1970 model year.

. The 1971 model year started at 00001, the sequence was only used until the end of the 1972 model year.

. Aside, the format had been introduced as one of a number of anti-theft measures. However, the same date codes with different but similar looking number sequences were used on 250 singles and Triumph triple engines built at the BSA works in Small Heath, Birmingham; the only obvious difference was the model code so it was relatively easy to 'hide' a stolen motorcycle from anyone who did not know the minutiae of Triumph and BSA model codes.

. By the start of the 1973 model year, 250's had been dropped from the Triumph model range; to reduce the chances of similar looking number sequences being used to 'hide' a stolen motorcycle, different sequences were assigned to each works - 1973 model year triples built at Small Heath started at (KH)00101 while 1973 model year twins built at Meriden started at (JH)15101.

. The 1974 model year started at (GJ)40101 for triples and (GJ)55101 for twins.

. The 1975 model year started at (XK)00101 for triples (new model) and (DK)61000 for twins.

. The 1976 model year started at (NN)06??? for triples and (HN)62501 for twins; your bike's AP 80932 appears to be in this number sequence.

So I've just figured the bike is +ve earth, which I hadn't thought and connected up the battery wrong as just about every vehicle I've ever owned in the last fifty years has been negative earth.

"earth" does not make any difference to how Direct Current electrics work - a battery is a battery, you cannot buy a 'positive earth' battery or a 'negative earth' battery.

Regrettably, it is fairly usual in these bikes' pasts that paddlers from the shallow end of the gene pool have been at the electrics. Original maker Lucas did try to make it easy by making wires to be connected to the battery +ve terminal Red, which has long been a fairly international standard. However, despite Red wire is very easy to find even if a paddler cannot be bothered to go to the hardware store, it is quite common to find any colour but Red connecting the wiring harness to battery +ve.

Red wires identified and connected to battery +ve should leave a Brown/Blue (insulation more Brown than Blue, one or two thin Blue tracer lines) wire to connect to battery -ve; this wire also originally had the single fuse holder, originally a white plastic cylinder, the fuse originally a glass tube enclosing the fusible strip, connected to a metal cap at each end of the glass tube, the metal caps also making contact with a Brown/Blue wire out of each end of the fuse holder.

Please post details of your bike's fuse and holder types as it is easy to use a fuse with too big a rating.

Will I have screwed anything connecting the battery the wrong way?
I have a healthy spark ,
not got it running yet so can't check the charging

Connecting the wiring harness to the battery the wrong way round usually blows the fuse, because the Zener diode (controls the alternator charge) makes a short-circuit.

As standard, the Zener diode is mounted inside the right-hand airbox, you will have to remove the outer cover and air filter; it is a large hexagon with a wide (3/8 inch) male spade terminal, mounted through the front edge of the oblong airbox inlet on its stud, secured with a small (2BA) nut.

It originally had a Brown/Blue wire connected to the spade terminal. If the wire is disconnected, it might indicate the Zener has failed (blowing the fuse when connected) or it and the separate rectifier's functions have been replaced with a combined regulator/rectifier.

manual suggests the the battery is just for low tension stuff and you can start the bike with a dead battery as the alternator provides the juice.

Even when the bike was new over forty years ago, what was claimed in 'manual world' and possible in the real world were not always the same. The word "just" in relation to the battery is unwise: the bike has 12V electrics, a good battery is capable of maintaining above 12V; with consideration and sympathy, the (rather feeble even when new) alternator is capable of keeping the battery charged. That in mind makes these old bikes a whole lot easier to live with.

don't have an owners manual,

1978 free to read online or 1977 brand new on paper.

red light on the headlamp
oil pressure light, ?

Yes. The original switch opens above about 3 psi and even tickover pressure should be above 20 psi even when the engine's hot. So, if you see it light up when the engine's running, you replace it with an oil pressure gauge at least temporarily to check the pressure and hope "just" the switch is faulty (although that is a can of worms in itself because replacement switches are rubbish more often than not ).

whats the middle , orange light for.

Depending on your translation: indicators, turn signals, flashers, etc. warning.

whats the green one for.

Headlamp main/high beam warning.

toggle switch on the headlamp is only main lights switch

Toggle to the left should be all lights off.

Toggle in the middle was originally tail lamp, pilot bulb (small bulb mounted in the headlamp reflector), speedometer and tachometer bulbs all on.

Toggle to the right should be all of the above plus headlamp.

However, as we are talking about a motorcycle over forty years old with possibly at least one not so careful owner, ymmv.

what are the two buttons on the right handle bar switch cluster.

Nothing. One does not have any wires connected to it.

The other has (originally had) a White wire and a White/Red wire. White wires are (should be) energised only when the ignition key switch is on. White/Red was to the electric-start relay ... the cluster came from the T160, which had an electric-start.

what position is the big flat red switch, I'm guessing Kill switch, in to run. Either position I still have the spark.

Was originally up for run, down for engine off.

Follow the cable from this switch cluster, goes into the headlamp? If so, loosen the slotted screw on the top of the headlamp shell a few turns (not all the way), you should be able to pull the headlamp and rim off the shell, from the top as there's a tongue at the bottom of the rim that engages in a slot in the shell.

Headlamp and rim hanging on the end of the wires, you should be able to see the wires out of the cable from the right hand switch cluster.

Kill switch wires are (were originally) White and White/Yellow. Some people struggle to keep the switch reliable; however, if the cluster cable is connected to the main harness with thin male and female pins inside two halves of a white plastic connector, these are the devil's own invention; "Either position I still have the spark" might mean the kill switch has been bypassed, by connecting the main harness White and White/Yellow wires together.

getting one carb flooding, and the other not flooding
surprised at the lack of possible adjustment to the float setting

If the floats are (off-)white hollow, first check neither has liquid in by holding up to light and shaking gently. Even if neither contains any liquid, they aren't ethanol resistant; black solid 'stay up' floats are their replacement.

Float heights are adjusted by warming the bowl and then pressing the float needle seat with a wooden dowel of the correct diameter.

If you must try and reuse white hollow floats, quick and dirty setting is:-

. mark the inside of the bowl opposite the needle seat 2 mm. below the surface of the bowl;

. assemble float, pivot and needle in the bowl;

. hold bowl in both hands with one thumb over each end of the float pivot but not touching the float;

. turn the assembly upside down and observe where the top of the float is in relation to the mark on the bowl;

. adjust seat as required, repeat above.

'Stay-up' float level is adjusted the same way but the top of the float should end up level with the bowl surface.

Pilot jet - on the other side of the carb from the air screw and only accessible after air screw removed - is likely to be blocked, clean with #78 drill bit in an aerosol straw. Pilot and other jets are likely to be corroded oversize (not visible but measurable with jet gauges), needle jet is also likely to be worn by the needle, body and slide should be measured for wear and clearance. If you must buy spares, buy direct from Amal as there are a lot of pirated parts, including reproduced Amal packaging. However, cost mounts rapidly; complete new Amal Premier replacement might be more cost-effective, plus they are made from a better material and have a pilot jet removeable for cleaning and inspection.

other not flooding even with the tickler depressed.

End of tickler from the underside of the body is a roll pin, grab it gently with pliers and pull gently to extend it.

two petrol taps, two carbs, one balance pipe with banjo unions between the carbs. so why two taps?

Loosen both taps' locknuts; the tap and nut threads are BSP (British Standard Pipe) thread so the nuts are a British Standard hexagon size, it is 0.6-inch AF (Across Flats) but the spanner that fits is marked "3/8 BS" (3/8-inch British Standard) and "5/16 W" (5/16-inch Whitworth).

Unscrew the taps from the tank, each should have a fine metal (original) or plastic (pattern) gauze filter. Look into each filter against the light, one tap should have a short pipe inside the filter; that is the 'main' tap; the other tap should not have a short pipe inside the filter; that is the 'reserve' tap.

While the taps are out of the tank, turn both 'on' fully and check that a 3/16-inch diameter rod will pass through the hole in each tap (original were 3/16-inch so a 5 mm diameter rod might not pass through).

When refitting the taps in the tank, each originally had two washers - one with a rubber centre thicker than the surrounding metal, called a Stat-O-Seal, that goes against the tank; the other washer is a plain metal one, fits between the Stat-O-Seal and the tap locknut.

When the bike is parked, turn off both taps.

In use, if a 3/16-inch or larger diameter rod did pass through each tap, as long as there is sufficient fuel in the tank, only open the 'main' tap; because of its pipe inside the filter and tank, fuel will only be drawn into it until the tank level reaches the top of the pipe.

When the tank level reaches the top of the pipe, the engine will stutter (because it is running out of fuel); turn on the other - 'reserve' - tap; because that does not have a level pipe inside, it draws from the bottom of the tank, using the fuel below the pipe on the 'main' tap.

The pipe between the carb. banjo ensures both carbs can be fed from either tap.

After you fill the tank, do not forget to turn off the 'reserve' tap ...

 

[jonboy]

Gosh.... totally grateful Mr R. comprehensive , erudite understandable. I am indebted. Obrigado Danke Grazi

 

[grandpaul]

Gosh.... totally grateful Mr R. comprehensive , erudite understandable. I am indebted. Obrigado Danke Grazi

Didn't I tell you, you'd get a long detailed answer?

Now get on with it, and do post back with progress notes and photos...

 

[Rocky]

Wow Rudie, that was a stunning reply

 

[tobyb]

January1977 T140V ... The bike has been stopped for about ten years, and was just left in a barn , with no lay-up, still petrol in the tank, and probably quietly leaking into the left carb anyway as it was on its side stand, and evaporating away..
so both carbs blocked, float bowls full of resin and silts..... I have a Haynes manual , and a pdf Triumph official one....I think I'm just about to answer my first question so I'll turn it an observation.
the serial number, two letters five numbers is probably numerically sequential, but I got hopelessly lost thinking for instance that my number AP 80932, is earlier than KH 17124, when the Triumph manual starts. till I saw the meaning of the letters, but when I was looking at wiring diagrams in Haynes that said 'from number DU **** i thought they weren't right. the moral is properly. even the almost invisible lines on a pdf.
So I've just figured the bike is +ve earth, which I hadn't thought and connected up the battery wrong as just about every vehicle I've ever owned in the last fifty years has been negative earth.
Will I have screwed anything connecting the battery the wrong way?
I have a healthy spark , and as the manual suggests the the battery is just for low tension stuff and you can start the bike with a dead battery as the alternator provides the juice., but I've not got it running yet so can't check the charging side of things.
I don't have an owners manual, the workshop manuals assume you know what everything does or is for, so,
question. ... the red light on the headlamp comes on strong when I turn the ignition on but even if I really gently tread the kick it goes off , when I kick as if im trying to start it stays off, even when I have the good healthy spark at the plugs. Is it oil pressure light, ? whats the middle , orange light for. whats the green one for. The left switch cluster is obvious, even written Horn , Hi LO etc and The toggle switch on the headlamp is only main lights switch, no?
what are the two buttons on the right handle bar switch cluster. no names. what position is the big flat red switch, I'm guessing Kill switch, in to run. Either position I still have the spark. These are easily solvable at this stage with a good clean and contact spray,
Next. Both carbs completely dismantled and cleaned, reassembled, but note one float was completely encrusted with the resiny varnish deposits, but believe me now its seems fine, no leaks ,
I was surprised at the lack of possible adjustment to the float setting... I've had carbs where the specifications are critical and height is adjustable by bending brass strips or similar. and measuring the level with straight edge and feeler guage. The concentrics appear to have no way to adjust the level, and I am getting one carb flooding, and the other not flooding even with the tickler depressed.
so strip down again, and one float bowl has the brass plug the needle valves seats against 1mm shorter than the other, and one has an approx 1.mm hole the other about 2mm or so. both needles and floats are in good condition, and the difference in 1mm float needle seat is compensated by the hi-tech method of 'tapping it a bit' (Haynes)... Huh??
Oh one other thing for now.... two petrol taps, two carbs, one balance pipe with banjo unions between the carbs. so why two taps? should they both be on, ? or switch from one to the other? thanks in advance....

To sane your self hours of grief, get a hold of the book 'Building Budget brits' it will answ

er most of your basic concerns. Just read it before you go much further.

 

[triumph david]

Don't forget those pictures when you get underway!