New Lucas Headlights

[Twinpots]

Anyone else used the latest genuine Lucas 7" headlight (Triumph Bonneville and many other British Bikes). My original was getting a little tarnished and Lucas finally came out with one that at least looked like the original and didn't say made in India. Huge disappointment with the light spread and intensity. Not even close to my old one. How is it possible to get it so wrong?
Can't blame Lucas coz this isn't really Lucas anymore. I never bought into the "Prince of Darkness" insult thing. Very unfair. When I bought my 67 Bonneville it had 100% original electrics and it all still worked. Compare that to my Mercedes which constantly shows more faults than a tennis match. Lucas supplied exactly what customers such as Triumph wanted at the price point they demanded. Compare the quality between Lucas then and the quality of "Lucas" now and there is a noticeable difference. Too be fair, the new Lucas rear beehive lens is very good and matches the original with the raised Lucas branding. Never understood why makers of new old parts cannot fib a little for the sake of historical accuracy.
Print Made in India on the back if you must for legal reasons but a new old ammeter really should say Lucas Made In England on its face. My new Amal Monoblocs look identical to the original except the float cover says made in England rather than the correct Made in Birmingham. I immediately swapped mine with a pair of original Birmingham ones so this was an easy fix. Sadly it seems the only UK maker of better quality exhaust mufflers has succumbed to the business effects of Covid and no longer supplies. The Emgo ones are OK but use super thin steel and minimal chrome cover. Apologies, nothing to do with Lucas lights I know. My Bonnie has been super reliable for some time so nothing else to write about.

 

[Lordmac]

Anyone else used the latest genuine Lucas 7" headlight (Triumph Bonneville and many other British Bikes). My original was getting a little tarnished and Lucas finally came out with one that at least looked like the original and didn't say made in India. Huge disappointment with the light spread and intensity. Not even close to my old one. How is it possible to get it so wrong?
Can't blame Lucas coz this isn't really Lucas anymore. I never bought into the "Prince of Darkness" insult thing. Very unfair. When I bought my 67 Bonneville it had 100% original electrics and it all still worked. Compare that to my Mercedes which constantly shows more faults than a tennis match. Lucas supplied exactly what customers such as Triumph wanted at the price point they demanded. Compare the quality between Lucas then and the quality of "Lucas" now and there is a noticeable difference. Too be fair, the new Lucas rear beehive lens is very good and matches the original with the raised Lucas branding. Never understood why makers of new old parts cannot fib a little for the sake of historical accuracy.
Print Made in India on the back if you must for legal reasons but a new old ammeter really should say Lucas Made In England on its face. My new Amal Monoblocs look identical to the original except the float cover says made in England rather than the correct Made in Birmingham. I immediately swapped mine with a pair of original Birmingham ones so this was an easy fix. Sadly it seems the only UK maker of better quality exhaust mufflers has succumbed to the business effects of Covid and no longer supplies. The Emgo ones are OK but use super thin steel and minimal chrome cover. Apologies, nothing to do with Lucas lights I know. My Bonnie has been super reliable for some time so nothing else to write about.

My '78 (early) still has all its original Lucas electrics and works fine. Ain't it amazin? Prince of Darkness - pshaw.

 

[67 Daytona]

Back in the 60s/70s the go to upgrade was Cibie concave unit . Can't remember if it was much better [50 yrs ago] , but think I still have it to go back on .

 

[Rudie]

My '78 (early) still has all its original Lucas electrics and works fine.

You might not be comparing like with like. About mid 77, either Lucas stopped supplying or Triumph stopped taking and fitting the long obsolete BPF (British Pre Focus) lens, reflector and bulb, it was replaced with lens, reflector and bulb conforming to the then current P45t international standard. If this is what your bike has, it is an excellent headlamp and the 45/40 main/dip Watts bulb works well with the standard RM21 alternator.

If your bike does have a P45t bulb and reflector/lens, while new bulbs are relatively easy to obtain, the reflector/lens is almost irreplaceable, because the international standard changed again in 1979, to the P43t that is still available today. Regrettably, despite bulb supply is good, no one makes new P45t reflector/lens units, Wassell ("Genuine Lucas") prefer to make the awful BPF, although the P45t reflector/lens unit was a direct drop in replacement and undetectable externally ...

 

[Lordmac]

You might not be comparing like with like. About mid 77, either Lucas stopped supplying or Triumph stopped taking and fitting the long obsolete BPF (British Pre Focus) lens, reflector and bulb, it was replaced with lens, reflector and bulb conforming to the then current P45t international standard. If this is what your bike has, it is an excellent headlamp and the 45/40 main/dip Watts bulb works well with the standard RM21 alternator.

If your bike does have a P45t bulb and reflector/lens, while new bulbs are relatively easy to obtain, the reflector/lens is almost irreplaceable, because the international standard changed again in 1979, to the P43t that is still available today. Regrettably, despite bulb supply is good, no one makes new P45t reflector/lens units, Wassell ("Genuine Lucas") prefer to make the awful BPF, although the P45t reflector/lens unit was a direct drop in replacement and undetectable externally ...

My Bonneville has a few odd additions when compared to others, it seems. One weird thing about mine is the serial number (frame and engine) which starts with PX and then the usual five numbers. According to the shop manual (published in 1978) under the "introduction and engine and frame numbers" section, P indicates the "month of manufacture" as November and X indicates the "season year" as 1978. I bought it new in May of 1978 and have the original sales receipt which concurs. I cannot figure that one out. So, yeah, there is a good chance I am not comparing like with like where the headlight is concerned.

You guys here at Triumph Talk do seem to know your stuff, though. I am constantly impressed with your acumen of things vintage Triumph. It boils down to I don't really know which headlight assembly was originally installed on my Bonneville but it does have the three-wire pigtail with the push-on connector for the standard fat-and-round tungsten bulb that (I am almost positive is a P45T) may or may not last very long and also a parking lamp. I recently purchase a new Lucas assembly with a halogen lamp with parking light cuz I dig halogen lamps, and will be swapping it for the original soon. Maybe it IS the Prince of Darkness if you don't got no spares, huh? Still, I never had the lamp burn out on me during flight.

 

[Rudie]

One weird thing about mine is the serial number (frame and engine) which starts with PX and then the usual five numbers. According to the shop manual (published in 1978) under the "introduction and engine and frame numbers" section, P indicates the "month of manufacture" as November and X indicates the "season year" as 1978. I bought it new in May of 1978 and have the original sales receipt which concurs. I cannot figure that one out.

That's easy ...

"season year" isn't January to December; however, the month is the calendar month ...

Triumph generally changed "season years" around July/August/September, although it could be anytime from May to December depending, and not always the same for different ranges. When changed, the "season year" went from matching the calendar year to the following year.

In your bike's case, Meriden changed from the 77 to 78 "season years" during calendar July 1977, the first 78 was T140V HX00100. So your bike's PXnnnnn indicates it was a 78 "season year" bike built in calendar November 1977.

One wrinkle to be aware of when looking at date codes is, because "season years" were very rarely twelve months long, the same date code could be used both towards the beginning of a "season year" and towards the end; e.g. while HX00100 was built in July 1977, Meriden also used HX in July 1978, the difference is bikes built in July 1978 had 1nnnn numbers.

Two more wrinkles to be aware of if you (or anyone else reading this) obtain a certificate from either the British Vintage Motor Cycle Club or Triumph Owners Motor Cycle Club:-

. The model code, date code and number were stamped on the engine when it was completed. For "matching numbers", the codes and number were copied on to the frame when the engine was installed in the frame. Engine completion and bike completion were not necessarily on the same day.

. A complete bike was not considered "Built" until it passed test on completion. If a bike failed test, it was put aside until parts and/or manpower were available to fix the fault(s). On occasions, this was weeks or even months later, one possible reason for any apparent 'discrepancy' between a date code and a certified "Built" date.

headlight
almost positive is a P45T

From your description, BPF bulb has two almost flat bump contacts for main and dip filaments, is secured in the reflector with a separate bayonet fit cap, the 'ground' is through the bulb's mounting in the reflector, Lucas added a rivetted loop to later caps for the bullet on the end of a 'ground' wire.

may or may not last very long and also a parking lamp. I recently purchase a new Lucas assembly with a halogen lamp with parking light cuz I dig halogen lamps, and will be swapping it for the original soon.

You can (should be able to) buy a standard 60/55 quartz-halogen bulb with a P45t base? Digressing, afaict P45t was the automotive standard during the period when the industry changed to quartz-halogen bulbs as a general standard, so certainly in the UK, both 60/55 QH and 45/40 that are not QH are generally available. I have also used the 60/60 "not QH" P45t in Japanese bikes with restricted space inside the headlamp shell.

If not already, one thing to know is a 60/55 draws about another Amp compared to a 45/40 or similar. If the engine rpm you generally ride at was still keeping the battery charged even with lights on, you might have to ride at higher rpm with the 60/55. Or fit a 15W Eagle Eye LED in place of the standard incandescent pilot bulb, not use the headlamp bulb in daylight at low rpm?

 

[Lordmac]

That's easy ...

"season year" isn't January to December; however, the month is the calendar month ...

Triumph generally changed "season years" around July/August/September, although it could be anytime from May to December depending, and not always the same for different ranges. When changed, the "season year" went from matching the calendar year to the following year.

In your bike's case, Meriden changed from the 77 to 78 "season years" during calendar July 1977, the first 78 was T140V HX00100. So your bike's PXnnnnn indicates it was a 78 "season year" bike built in calendar November 1977.

One wrinkle to be aware of when looking at date codes is, because "season years" were very rarely twelve months long, the same date code could be used both towards the beginning of a "season year" and towards the end; e.g. while HX00100 was built in July 1977, Meriden also used HX in July 1978, the difference is bikes built in July 1978 had 1nnnn numbers.

Two more wrinkles to be aware of if you (or anyone else reading this) obtain a certificate from either the British Vintage Motor Cycle Club or Triumph Owners Motor Cycle Club:-

. The model code, date code and number were stamped on the engine when it was completed. For "matching numbers", the codes and number were copied on to the frame when the engine was installed in the frame. Engine completion and bike completion were not necessarily on the same day.

. A complete bike was not considered "Built" until it passed test on completion. If a bike failed test, it was put aside until parts and/or manpower were available to fix the fault(s). On occasions, this was weeks or even months later, one possible reason for any apparent 'discrepancy' between a date code and a certified "Built" date.


From your description, BPF bulb has two almost flat bump contacts for main and dip filaments, is secured in the reflector with a separate bayonet fit cap, the 'ground' is through the bulb's mounting in the reflector, Lucas added a rivetted loop to later caps for the bullet on the end of a 'ground' wire.


You can (should be able to) buy a standard 60/55 quartz-halogen bulb with a P45t base? Digressing, afaict P45t was the automotive standard during the period when the industry changed to quartz-halogen bulbs as a general standard, so certainly in the UK, both 60/55 QH and 45/40 that are not QH are generally available. I have also used the 60/60 "not QH" P45t in Japanese bikes with restricted space inside the headlamp shell.

If not already, one thing to know is a 60/55 draws about another Amp compared to a 45/40 or similar. If the engine rpm you generally ride at was still keeping the battery charged even with lights on, you might have to ride at higher rpm with the 60/55. Or fit a 15W Eagle Eye LED in place of the standard incandescent pilot bulb, not use the headlamp bulb in daylight at low rpm?

"Impressive. Obi-Wan has taught you well."

Many, many thanks for the enlightenment about the date-of-manufacture stamps. Lots of Triumph guys/gals will be happy to know that too, I am sure. I thought maybe somebody at Meriden was using the wrong punch that day. And, also thanks for the headlight details. My Bonneville seems to have no problem juicing the bat with headlight on, so I'm good there. Here is a recent photo of my Bonnie. I live where the photo was taken. Not bad, eh?

 

[Lordmac]

Anyone else used the latest genuine Lucas 7" headlight (Triumph Bonneville and many other British Bikes). My original was getting a little tarnished and Lucas finally came out with one that at least looked like the original and didn't say made in India. Huge disappointment with the light spread and intensity. Not even close to my old one. How is it possible to get it so wrong?
Can't blame Lucas coz this isn't really Lucas anymore. I never bought into the "Prince of Darkness" insult thing. Very unfair. When I bought my 67 Bonneville it had 100% original electrics and it all still worked. Compare that to my Mercedes which constantly shows more faults than a tennis match. Lucas supplied exactly what customers such as Triumph wanted at the price point they demanded. Compare the quality between Lucas then and the quality of "Lucas" now and there is a noticeable difference. Too be fair, the new Lucas rear beehive lens is very good and matches the original with the raised Lucas branding. Never understood why makers of new old parts cannot fib a little for the sake of historical accuracy.
Print Made in India on the back if you must for legal reasons but a new old ammeter really should say Lucas Made In England on its face. My new Amal Monoblocs look identical to the original except the float cover says made in England rather than the correct Made in Birmingham. I immediately swapped mine with a pair of original Birmingham ones so this was an easy fix. Sadly it seems the only UK maker of better quality exhaust mufflers has succumbed to the business effects of Covid and no longer supplies. The Emgo ones are OK but use super thin steel and minimal chrome cover. Apologies, nothing to do with Lucas lights I know. My Bonnie has been super reliable for some time so nothing else to write about.

Anyone else used the latest genuine Lucas 7" headlight (Triumph Bonneville and many other British Bikes). My original was getting a little tarnished and Lucas finally came out with one that at least looked like the original and didn't say made in India. Huge disappointment with the light spread and intensity. Not even close to my old one. How is it possible to get it so wrong?
Can't blame Lucas coz this isn't really Lucas anymore. I never bought into the "Prince of Darkness" insult thing. Very unfair. When I bought my 67 Bonneville it had 100% original electrics and it all still worked. Compare that to my Mercedes which constantly shows more faults than a tennis match. Lucas supplied exactly what customers such as Triumph wanted at the price point they demanded. Compare the quality between Lucas then and the quality of "Lucas" now and there is a noticeable difference. Too be fair, the new Lucas rear beehive lens is very good and matches the original with the raised Lucas branding. Never understood why makers of new old parts cannot fib a little for the sake of historical accuracy.
Print Made in India on the back if you must for legal reasons but a new old ammeter really should say Lucas Made In England on its face. My new Amal Monoblocs look identical to the original except the float cover says made in England rather than the correct Made in Birmingham. I immediately swapped mine with a pair of original Birmingham ones so this was an easy fix. Sadly it seems the only UK maker of better quality exhaust mufflers has succumbed to the business effects of Covid and no longer supplies. The Emgo ones are OK but use super thin steel and minimal chrome cover. Apologies, nothing to do with Lucas lights I know. My Bonnie has been super reliable for some time so nothing else to write about.

"Sadly it seems the only UK maker of better quality exhaust mufflers has succumbed to the business effects of Covid and no longer supplies. The Emgo ones are OK but use super thin steel and minimal chrome cover. Apologies, nothing to do with Lucas lights I know. My Bonnie has been super reliable for some time so nothing else to write about."

No kidding. I had a pair of UK-made "see-gars" for my 78 Bonneville on order for . . . like three months . . . and they still never showed and I finally had to cancel the order cuz they quite manufacturing them, or some-such bull-oney. Then, suddenly, the price of those Emgo mufflers DOUBLED! Forget that. I did manage to get my hands on a pair of very nice UK-made Norton Peashooter style mufflers for my Triumph and I love those. But I still want a pair of UK-made "see-gars."

 

[grandpaul]

Here is a recent photo of my Bonnie. I live where the photo was taken. Not bad, eh?View attachment 52349

Very nice setting, indeed.

Love the UPS livery...

 

[brooke]

"Impressive. Obi-Wan has taught you well."

Many, many thanks for the enlightenment about the date-of-manufacture stamps. Lots of Triumph guys/gals will be happy to know that too, I am sure. I thought maybe somebody at Meriden was using the wrong punch that day. And, also thanks for the headlight details. My Bonneville seems to have no problem juicing the bat with headlight on, so I'm good there. Here is a recent photo of my Bonnie. I live where the photo was taken. Not bad, eh?View attachment 52349

I’m jealous

 

[Lordmac]

Very nice setting, indeed.

Love the UPS livery...

UPS should be so lucky! You may not be aware (if you have not been fortunate enough to see it in person), but the deep, luscious, root beer and gold metallic (ORIGINAL) paint on my Triumph is really very nice looking when the light hits it. This photo does not do it justice since modern cameras are simply not able to capture the splendor of such color!