'73 DAYTONA T100R

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HERE ARE PIX OF THE TEAR IN THE SCREEN AND SOME OF THE DEBRIS. I TORE THE SCREEN OFF AND IT SEEMS TO BE FROM THE INSIDE OF THE VALVE.
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TODAY I TRIED TO REMOVE THE TIMING COVER TO CHANGE THE OIL SEAL BEHIND THE CONTACT BREAKER PLATE. I MANAGED TO GET THE PLATES OFF BUT THE TIMING COVER REFUSED TO BUDGE. I SAW THAT THE OLD SEAL WAS PARTIALLY DISLODGED AND THE SPRING WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE SEAL WAS MISSING. I LUBED THE NEW SEAL AND MANAGED TO GET IT IN WITH THE HELP OF A DEEP SOCKET. IT SEEMS TO BE IN FIRMLY.

MIGHT THE SPRING FROM THE OLD SEAL BE SOMEWHERE INSIDE THE TIMING COVER? IDK WHAT THE PREVIOUS OWNER USED AS GASKET SEAL BUT I DIDN'T WANT TO RISK DAMAGING THE COVER.

I ALSO WANTED TO CHANGE THE CRANK OIL SEAL. ANY IDEAS ON HOW TO DISLODGE THE OLD SEALANT?
 
TODAY I ALSO TACKLED THE KICKSTART OIL SEAL LEAK. AS I REMOVED THE KICKSTART I NOTICED THAT THE METAL OIL SEAL COVER ( 57-2238) HAD BEEN BADLY DAMAGED BY SOMEBODY TRYING TO PRY IT OFF. I REMOVED THE OIL SEAL COVER AND THE OIL SEAL (57-2239), WHICH WAS ALSO MANGLED, AND HAVE ORDERED NEW PARTS.

DO I NEED TO REMOVE THE GEARBOX COVER TO REPLACE IT OR CAN I DRIVE IT HOME WITH A DEEP SOCKET OVER THE SPINDLE?

ALSO, I NOTICED THAT THE CRANKCASE OIL DRAIN PLUG CALLS FOR TWO JOINT WASHERS (70-1577). I ONLY GOT ONE BECAUSE THE GUY I SPOKE TO SAID I ONLY NEED ONE. SHALL I ORDER ANOTHER OR WILL ONE SUFFICE?
 
PIX OF THE TEAR IN THE SCREEN AND SOME OF THE DEBRIS. I TORE THE SCREEN OFF AND IT SEEMS TO BE FROM THE INSIDE OF THE VALVE.
+1. :confused: why a previous owner would leave in bits of an old p.r.v. screen when fitting a new one? Also, someone has to be fairly ham-fisted to damage one p.r.v., two looks more like plain incompetence ...

Btw:-

. Ensure any new p.r.v. has a fine mesh screen, coarse mesh is for triples.

. Avoid any new p.r.v. with all components made of stainless steel - stainless piston has a reputation for sticking in a stainless body. :oops: At best, stainless cap only?

TRIED TO REMOVE THE TIMING COVER
IDK WHAT THE PREVIOUS OWNER USED AS GASKET SEAL
WANTED TO CHANGE THE CRANK OIL SEAL
Timing cover is difficult to remove at the best of times. The oil pump in the crankcase pumps oil into the timing cover because the end of the crank - that receives the pumped oil for the plain big end bearings - also pokes into the timing cover; also one end of the spindle for the cams drive "Intermediate wheel" pokes into the timing cover. To keep the timing cover aligned closely with the crankcase, there are two hollow dowels in the internal oilways immediately above the two screws not quite at the the bottom of the timing cover.

"Change the crank oil seal" - why?

Timing cover gasket not shown or listed in the parts book; afaict, that was deliberate, although they are available. No gasket on your engine, likely a sealant like Three Bond, Hondabond, Yamabond, etc. has been used; gentle heat and judicious bashing with a rubber mallet (knowing where those dowels are) and above all patience should eventually start to dislodge the timing cover from the dowels.

However, consider the saying:-

"If It Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It"

. Does the timing cover leak oil? If it does not, you could make it leak ... :cool:

. The crank oil seal in the timing cover is vitally important to ensure oil from the pump enters the crank; unwise simply to "change the crank oil seal":-

.. only British made Pioneer Weston seals are consistently good quality in this vital area;

.. the area of the crank where the seal works must be measured with a micrometer to check for wear; if any wear is measured, a compensating undersize seal must be sourced and fitted.

One reason for checking and possibly changing the crank oil seal is concern about low engine oil pressure. The only way pressure can be measured on your bike's engine is by a gauge connected in place of the pressure switch in the front of the timing cover:-

. originally on your bike's engine (most Triumph engines), this thread is specifically 1/8"NPS - National Pipe Straight;

. NPS hose fittings are difficult to source even in the US; more common NPT (National Pipe Tapered) can be used but great care must be taken to ensure the timing cover is not ruptured when trying so seal a NPT hose fitting in the cover's NPS thread;

. a hose to the gauge (mounted on the handlebars?) must be used as pressure readings are only valid when the engine is hot (been ridden some miles);

. oil pressure gauge hose is normally plastic for flexibility so more great care must be taken to ensure the hose never contacts a hot exhaust pipe;

. the Triumph workshop manual says idle pressure should be 20-25 psi, "Normal running" (3,500 rpm and above) should be 60 psi; otoh, the switch opens at 7 psi;

. even the best Triumph oil pump is not great; having ridden, say, the Angeles Crest Highway, a gauge could well show the "Normal running" pressure is well below 60 psi and idle pressure closer to 7 psi than 20 psi ...;

. but a panic engine strip would not reveal anything untoward ...

Ime, if not mounting an oil pressure gauge on the bike permanently, it is wise to check the pressure periodically, to ensure the switch's low pressure is not masking a developing problem - ignorance is only bliss until something expensive but preventable ... :( Whichever you decide to do, it needs some planning; if you decide to mount a permanent gauge, be prepared to be scared by what it apparently shows but without corresponding expensive engine noises ... :cool:

KICKSTART OIL SEAL LEAK
NEW
OIL SEAL
OIL SEAL COVER
DRIVE IT HOME WITH A DEEP SOCKET OVER THE SPINDLE?
(y) Over the spindle would help to avoid problems refitting the gearbox outer cover over the spindle.

CRANKCASE OIL DRAIN PLUG CALLS FOR TWO JOINT WASHERS (70-1577)
ONE SUFFICE?
(y) The "2" is a later misprint, the parts book for my earlier T100 lists only one.
 
ONCE AGAIN RUDIE YOU ARE AN ABSOLUTE WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE. I HAVE BEEN LEARNING A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT FROM YOU AND I'M GLAD I JOINED THIS SITE. I HOPE OTHERS CAN BENEFIT FROM MY IGNORANCE AND YOUR TUTORIALS.

I WILL LEAVE THE TIMING COVER AND GEARBOX COVER ALONE SINCE I HAVE NO LEAKS FROM IT. YET. I HOPE THE KICKSTART SEAL AND COVER GO IN WITHOUT NEEDING TO HEAT THE ARE WITH A TORCH.

I ALSO JUST NOTICED A LEAK FROM WHERE MY TACH GEARBOX ATTACHES TO THE PRIMARY CASE. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE WHEN THE BIKE HASN'T HAD OIL IN IT IN OVER A WEEK? THE PRIMARY CHAIN AREA IS THE ONLY OIL LEFT IN THE BIKE.

ALSO THE PRIMARY CHAIN OIL LEVEL PLUG IS STRIPPED. APPEARS THE THREADS IN THE CASE ARE BAD.

SHALL I RE-TAP THE CASE AND INSERT NEW BOLT OR JUST PUT SOME GASKET SEALER AROUND OLD BOLT AND SCREW IT IN?
 
HOPE THE KICKSTART SEAL AND COVER GO IN WITHOUT NEEDING TO HEAT THE ARE WITH A TORCH.
The 57-2238 "Oil seal cover" is an interference fit in the gearbox cover; interference fits, common practice to heat around the outer part and freeze the inner part to reduce the fitting force necessary. The oil seal cover is thin metal but but freezing seal and cover might cause difficulty fitting the seal on the shaft so some heat in the cover would be even more help during fitting.

LEAK FROM WHERE MY TACH GEARBOX ATTACHES TO THE PRIMARY CASE.
If the tach drive gearbox, it is attached to the drive side crankcase, in front of the primary case (the latter encloses the primary drive chain and sprockets).

If it is the tach drive gearbox, the 'seal' between gearbox and crankcase is imperfect; the seal is the same 70-7351 Stat-O-Seal washer as those sealing most fuel taps to tanks but, while the washer's centre is on the thread of the "Securing screw", it is not compressed as it is on fuel taps. I would replace the 70-7351 between gearbox and crankcase and fill the gearbox with grease when reassembling, the grease will lubricate the gears better than any oil that happens to escape from the crankcase past the seal.

PRIMARY
OIL LEVEL PLUG IS STRIPPED
You mean parts book pages 30/31 - "Chaincase And Chains" - part #26, a small 1/4" bolt towards the front of the primary's underside?

If so, I would: degrease the primary case, cover the bolt threads with Hylomar, refit bolt in case with a good sealing washer, tighten as in Hylomar instructions, never touch the bolt again. :cool:

The bolt was not necessary after 69. For 70, the crankcase venting was changed to route through the primary and out via the large diameter hose under the left carb; a secondary consequence is, whatever engine oil quantity is put into the primary, the running engine maintains the primary oil level, any excess runs back into the crankcase.

YOU ARE AN ABSOLUTE WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE. I HAVE BEEN LEARNING A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT FROM YOU AND I'M GLAD I JOINED THIS SITE.
:cool: Once again, thank you.
 
Hi Sir Lion. I wanted to pass on to you what I have been up to as may be of use.

Oil leaks.
Back on the road with virtually no leaks so far. I used Loctite 577, primarily to stop bits falling off or coming loose (such as the sump plug, luckily I checked for tightness after loosing the primary inspection plug) but this has the added bonus of stopping oil seeping out. On my Tiger, the breather outlet is by the gearbox sprocket, not sure if the same for a Daytona? I changed from 18 to 19 tooth, massive improvement in gearing; while doing this I put new oil seals from gearbox and cover plate, new breather pipe (the previous one was too loose and had slipped off, and reused the primary cover gasket, putting grease onto the casing, sticking on gasket, putting grease on the gasket and fitting the primary case. Leaks are now gone.

LEDs.
I tried out my LED bulbs yesterday evening at dusk, riding around the dark lanes, so far very impressed. i have yet to use when really dark.

Tank petcock.
I tried several to replace my leaky original which did not cope with ethanol in the fuel. I bought a brand new Royal Enfield fuel tap that includes reserve, fits perfectly and no leaks.
 

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THANKS FOR THE UPDATE COSMIC SHED. I'M WAITING ON THE KICKSTART OIL SEAL AND COVER BEFORE I CAN PUT OIL IN THE BIKE AND START IT UP TO CHECK FOR ANY LEAKS.

MY NEXT UPGRADE WILL BE LED BULBS.PLEASE KEEP ME POSTED ON THE NIGHT RIDE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE BULBS.
 
ON PAGE H19 OF THE TRIUMPH REPAIR MANUAL, I NOTICED THAT IT STATES THAT THE FUSE MUST BE CONNECTED TO THE BATTERY POSITIVE TERMINAL. MINE IS CONNECTED TO THE NEGATIVE TERMINAL AND LEADS INTO THE WIRING HARNESS.

IS THIS A CORRECT SET UP? I HAVE HAD NO ELECTRICAL ISSUES.
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ON PAGE H19 OF THE TRIUMPH REPAIR MANUAL, I NOTICED THAT IT STATES THAT THE FUSE MUST BE CONNECTED TO THE BATTERY POSITIVE TERMINAL. MINE IS CONNECTED TO THE NEGATIVE TERMINAL AND LEADS INTO THE WIRING HARNESS.

IS THIS A CORRECT SET UP? I HAVE HAD NO ELECTRICAL ISSUES.
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NO. That short grounding wire is bolted to several bits that are isolated by rubber grommets for vibration damping. You should run that solid ground wire from the battery to the same point on the top of the cylinder head that the wiring harness is grounded to.
 
TRIUMPH REPAIR MANUAL
PAGE H19
STATES THAT THE FUSE MUST BE CONNECTED TO THE BATTERY POSITIVE TERMINAL
Be careful how you apply any workshop manual for the Triumph "C range" (350 cc and 500 cc unit construction engines), the range had quite a long life (57-74), there were many changes:-

. The Triumph ring bound folder manual covers 63-74; e.g. your bike's engine has a timing side ball bearing; before 69, a different ball bearing was on the drive side; in mechanical terms, this means a 69-74 crank is anchored to the timing side crankcase, a pre-69 crank is anchored to the drive side crankcase.

. As your bike is a 73, when reading any Section of the Triumph manual, you should always look first to the end of the Section, for a supplement with dual letters - e.g. the electrics are Section H, at the end is supplement HH, that applied to your bike when it was new. Nevertheless, this is not infallible, :rolleyes: Section HH does not include an exactly-correct wiring diagram for any 72-74 500, some other Sections incorporate changes within the main Section ...

. Electrically, the Triumph manual covers 6V DC, ET (Energy Transfer) AC and 12V DC electrics; DC electrics were not changed until the 66 model year. 6V electrics, Lucas did not supply/fit a fuse. (n) In the first year after the change, Lucas supplied a fuse for connecting to the battery +ve terminal - this is correct for any vehicle with "positive ground" electrics and without an electric starter. However, thereafter, although original electrics always remained positive ground, Lucas inexplicably connected the fuse to the battery -ve terminal ... :eek:

. The problem with positive ground electrics but the main or only fuse connected to the battery -ve terminal (i.e. not the battery ground terminal) is, if something metal (e.g. loose tool, broken seat pan, battery charger terminal) connects between the battery -ve terminal itself and another part of the bike, the main or only fuse cannot prevent the resulting short circuit ... (n) This failure is not as uncommon as we would all like, all the internet forums for old British bikes have several posts about wiring damage, bike damage, other vehicle damage and, in some cases, even building damage; similar tales were also in club magazines before the internet ... all because of a mortally stupid logic failure perpetuated for years ...

. To summarise, although the fuse connection to battery +ve detailed on Triumph workshop manual page H19 did not apply to your bike when it was new, that connection is much safer than your bike's current one.

In addition to the poor standard battery-fuse connection, your photo shows your bike's wiring is not standard, it has been mangled, possibly because it was damaged by a short, certainly to match the battery, which is obviously a replacement but not fitted correctly ...

As I have written above, your bike's electrics are "positive ground" - the battery positive terminal is connected to the metal parts of the bike.

However, the replacement battery has been fitted with the "not ground" negative terminal very close to the positive-grounded frame tube ...:y22: Triumph always fitted original Lucas batteries with the "not ground" negative terminal nearest the oil tank, which was fully rubber-mounted also from 66.

Like @grandpaul, I am curious how the pictured ground works - the oil tank is rubber-mounted, the "straps" connecting the oil tank to the other side of the frame and suspending the battery/carrier are also rubber-mounted on the other side of the frame ... :confused:

NO ELECTRICAL ISSUES
Imho nevertheless plan to correct the highlighted issues; also: the fuse holder is not original, tape covered wiring (both ends of the fuse holder) always makes me wonder what bodges it is hiding ... :(

You should run that solid ground wire from the battery to the same point on the top of the cylinder head that the wiring harness is grounded to.
Basically yes, but not that particular wire:-

. If you intend to continue using the pictured battery, turn it around in the carrier so the -ve terminal is closest to the oil tank.

. The new Red wire between the battery +ve terminal and (practically) one of the studs that connects a frame-engine head steady to a rocker box should be "14 gauge" (14AWG) size (all original 71 onwards wiring is similar to 18AWG, too low rated for wires that are common to several circuits - the wire connected to either battery terminal ...).

. The wire between the battery +ve terminal and the head steady stud should include the main fuse/holder close to the battery terminal. Search online for "clip together blade fuse holder"; ideally you will find similar to:-
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... ("clip together" so you can clip on a second holder for a spare fuse? :sneaky:) but you might have to settle for:-
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... just ensure the wire is 14AWG size.

. The reason I suggest a blade fuse holder is the fuses are much more widely available than original type cylindrical fuses. Fit a 15A fuse.

. Main/only fuse in the only wire connected to the battery +ve terminal, the fuse holder connected to battery -ve can be discarded; insulating tape stripped off the wire, I can advise where the necessary new 14AWG Brown/Blue wire from the battery -ve terminal should be connected?

The links above to 14AWG size wire are to British Wiring; afaik, they are the only US supplier of wires matching standard Lucas insulation colours, matching bullet terminals and connectors, standard spade terminals and matching insulators.
 
I NOTICED 3 RED WIRES GOING INTO ONE CONNECTER ATTACHED TO THE CYLINDER HEAD UNDERNEATH THE GAS TANK. THE NEGATIVE WIRE WITH THE FUSE APPEARS TO GO INTO THE HARNESS WHICH GOES TO THE TAIL LIGHT AND RECTIFIER. I PUT THE TAPE ON THE FUSE BECAUSE THE SNAP AND TWIST FUSE CONTAINER IS BROKEN. THE FUSE APPEARS TO BE 35 AMP.

RUDIE, I WILL DO AS YOU SAY WITH THE BATTERY AND FUSE. THAT WILL BE MY NEXT CHORE TO TACKLE.
 
NEGATIVE WIRE WITH THE FUSE
FUSE APPEARS TO BE 35 AMP.
You have to be careful with cylindrical fuse ratings on all old British vehicles:-

. The UK rates only that fuse type by "blow" Amps; i.e. the original fuse on your bike should blow if more than 35A was drawn through it.

. However, the US (many countries in the world) rate all fuse types by "continuous" Amps, which is half "blow". In particular, when Japanese vehicles used the same cylindrical fuse type, the fuse rating is stamped on one end, but it is a "continuous" rating. So, if a British "35A" fuse is replaced by a local non-British "35A" fuse, in fact that local non-British fuse is 35A "continuous", 70A "blow". :eek:

. Some original British fuses had a small piece of paper inserted in the glass tube during assembly that said, "35A blow, 17.5A continuous". However, if that piece of paper is not present in a British fuse being replaced ... :(

. A direct non-British 17.5A "continuous" replacement cylindrical fuse does not exist, the nearest are either 15A or 20A. I have never had a problem using 15A fuses, cylindrical or blade.

WILL DO AS YOU SAY WITH THE BATTERY AND FUSE
3 RED WIRES GOING INTO ONE CONNECTER ATTACHED TO THE CYLINDER HEAD UNDERNEATH THE GAS TANK.
If you were to remove all the tape covering the harness, you would probably find at least one of those Red wires connects to electrical parts located towards the front of the bike while at least one other of the wires runs towards the rear of the bike, connecting to parts like the rectifier and rear light, and originally the battery +ve terminal.

New thicker Red engine-to-battery +ve wire, British Wiring sells crimping ring terminals ("eyelets") - 3/8" if on a head steady stud, 1/4" on the battery terminal.

If using the BW ring terminals (I appreciate they are pricey for what they are :(), regrettably one thing BW never lists is a crimping tool for those terminals (and will crimp standard spade terminals when you come to them). If you do not have the tool, pliers or vice grips are not wise, Eclipse Crimp Tool and Die Set - the jaw cutouts shown in the photo fitted to the tool will crimp the ring terminals and standard spade terminals. (y)

NEGATIVE WIRE
APPEARS TO GO INTO THE HARNESS WHICH GOES TO THE TAIL LIGHT AND RECTIFIER.
In all 71-78 Lucas harnesses, the Brown/Blue wire connects the battery -ve terminal, the middle plate terminal on the original 3-plate rectifier, the large spade terminal on the Zener diode (in the finned heatsink under the headlamp on your bike) and one terminal on the ignition switch. If you look at the wires at those parts, you should see two Brown/Blue wires crimped together in two of the female spade terminals.

New Brown/Blue wire, another BW(?) 1/4" "eyelet" on the battery -ve terminal end, same as on the battery +ve terminal end of the new Red wire.

A little more difficult is where to connect the other end of the new Brown/Blue wire ...:-

. Unless you are already planning to replace the existing separate rectifier and Zener diode with a combined regulator/rectifier ("reg/rec")? Those replaced, the new Brown/Blue would run directly from the battery -ve terminal to the ignition switch terminal.

. However, if you are not planning to replace the existing rectifier and Zener, I would not advise it unless either part failed.

. If the rectifier currently has two Brown/Blue wires crimped into one female spade terminal, if you ran the new Brown/Blue from battery -ve to the existing rectifier centre terminal, would you feel confident:-

.. cutting off the existing female spade terminal to separate the two existing wires;

.. using a meter to identify the end of the Brown/Blue wire to the Zener diode and ignition switch;

.. crimping that wire and the end of the new Brown/Blue from battery +ve in a new spade terminal to be fitted on the rectifier?

. If you would not feel confident doing the above, easiest is probably:-

.. remove the existing fuse holder and its existing wire to the battery -ve terminal;

.. use new Brown/Blue wire to connect between the battery -ve terminal and the remaining end of the existing Brown/Blue wire, I would connect the two wires with 1/4" male and female spade terminals and insulators (female terminal and insulator on the end of wire from battery -ve).
 
I WILL REMOVE THE EXISTING FUSE HOLDER AND CONNECT THE NEW NEGATIVE WIRE FROM THE BATTERY TO THE EXISTING NEGATIVE WIRE IN THE HARNESS.

WHERE WILL MY NEW FUSE HOLDER GO?

ALSO, THE BIKE HAS NOT HAD OIL IN IT FOR 2 WEEKS. WHEN I REPLACE THE OIL, IS IT OK TO START THE BIKE OR DO I HAVE TO PUT A BIT OF OIL IN EACH CYLINDER?
 
THANK YOU RUDIE.

I FOUND THIS GREASE NEEDLE AT MY LOCAL HARDWARE STORE WHICH MAKES IT A BREEZE TO GREASE THE FRONT BRAKE AND THE SPEEDO DRIVE. IT'S MADE OF 18 GAUGE STEEL, FITS MOST GREASE GUNS AND HAS A BIT OF FLEXIBILITY IN IT.

JUST THOUGHT FOLKS MIGHT WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THIS PRODUCT. MAKES LIFE MUCH EASIER.

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I ALSO UPDATED MY 2 OIL TANK HOSES AND WENT FROM THE STANDARD 5/16" TO 1/4" HOSES. THE 5/16" HOSES WERE COMING LOOSE AND MY HOSE CLAMPS WERE BREAKING DUE TO ME OVER TIGHTENING THEM.

WILL THE 1/4" HOSES INCREASE MY OIL PRESSURE AND DAMAGE MY OIL PUMP?
 
WILL THE 1/4" HOSES INCREASE MY OIL PRESSURE AND DAMAGE MY OIL PUMP?
No and no.

The feed side oil pressure is governed by the clearance between the big end shells and crank journals, and the oil pressure relief valve. There is very little scavenge side oil pressure because there is no similar restriction between pump and tank.
 
signals i am pretty sure started in 1972 as my 72 has them, 71 models may of started signals but i am not sure. I know my 1970 T100C Trophy did not have signals. The 73 had a brighter red gas tank. The exhaust pipes were clamped different into the head than previous years causing some to vibrate out. i remember my friend had one and the clamp would distort the pipe inside the head instead of onto a threaded exhaust mini outlet pipe,. that may of been the last year for the daytona, Am i correct on that anyone?
 
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signals i am pretty sure started in 1972 as my 72 has them, 71 models may of started signals but i am not sure. I know my 1970 T100C Trophy did not have signals. The 73 had a brighter red gas tank. The exhaust pipes were clamped different into the head than previous years causing some to vibrate out.
that may of been the last year for the daytona,
Last Daytonas, and TR5T, were 74; last Daytonas were 25 T100D with front disc brake same as the triples and 650/750 twins.

As in reply to your post in 1971 T100C Refresh, Triumph and BSA fitted turn signals to all 71 and later bikes.

Original 73 T100 red was called "Vermilion".

72, exhaust pipes changed from the previous "push over" - push over steel spigots screwed into the cylinder head exhaust ports - to "push in" - simply push into the unthreaded cylinder head exhaust ports.

"Push in" pipes are not clamped to anything in the cylinder head, they rely on the balance pipe clamps and the bolts and brackets to a front engine mounting.

The photos in the T100C thread show "Finned clips" that clamp the push over pipes to the cylinder head spigots; the similar "Finned clips" on push in pipes are just decorative.
 

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