Immediate Rear Wheel Lockup At 55 Mph

[RobinV]

Finally able to ride the T140. Dealt with several issues one by one. Right now running somewhat rich and will deal with that next I hope. Will probably drop both needles one notch. Three eight mile round trips on my test runs. OK. Decided to ride a little further today. After a visit with a friend, I got back on the Highway. Plenty of power and running at about 3200 rpm. Slower than most traffic around here, and not pushing the bike hard.
All of a sudden the engine stopped and the rear wheel locked up. A little bit of a sideways skid, and I pulled over. I thought that my transmission had locked up. Pulled in the clutch and was able to roll down to the next exit. There, I realized that I could shift from 5th back to N. OK, I thought. I'll just kick 'er over. Nope. Seized hard.
Started walking home to get the trailer, and a very nice person gave me a lift and saved me a 2-3 hour walk. God bless her!
Was thinking I would now learn how to build a T140 engine. Checked a few things and drained the oil, looked clean. Then reached in to check tension on the primary chain. What chain? Nothing to check.
So off comes the cover, and sure enough the chain was broken, and in a few pieces. Was able to finegle and cut and remove most. Engine sprocket still good and the little motor spins free as new.
I will remove what is still jammed at the clutch hub this week. There was no leak and the primary chaincase looks to be undamaged.
So I feel very lucky and have a few teeth missing on the clutch basket. Will look to replace that. Close call there alright.!

 

[atomsplitter]

Glad it wasn't more serious. Part and parcel to ancient bike rebuilds is the occasional detonation of parts you didn't expect to see explode. The joy of finding the weak links in the system.

 

[grandpaul]

Glad to hear it was nothing major/terminal!

Get on with it, and make this your project thread...

P.S. - This is NOT Playboy. We come here for the PICTURES, not the "interesting articles" hee hee

 

[RobinV]

I have ordered a new UK made clutch basket and a primary chain. Also a tool for clutch hub removal. Upon a close inspection I noticed that the chain hit and slightly bent one of the stator bolts. Need to get a few Whitworth sockets to remove the nuts. I see that there are two small cracks on the boss that holds that stud. Pretty minor damage in relation to what could have happened.
Will have a local aluminum welder strengthen those up for me.

 

[Rudie]

Lucky escape.

chain hit and slightly bent one of the stator bolts. Need to get a few Whitworth sockets to remove the nuts.

Standard T140:-

. alternator stator nuts and studs, hexs are AF - UNF nut thread, UNC thread stud into crankcase;

. very few British Standard (only incorrectly "Whitworth" in the US) threads, nuts, bolts, screws.

Be careful when removing the stator from the studs; unless the stator was fitted recently, heat will have hardened certainly the plastic wires sheath, likely the wires insulation, especially at the entry into/exit from the stator coils potting.

You will find it wise to disconnect the two parts of the cable's crankcase exit seal, ensure the cable can move easily through the screw in part so the cable can be pulled easily through the seal as the stator is pulled off the studs. Also consider warming the cable inside the chaincase with a hair dryer or paint stripping gun. If the stator is not being removed completely from the bike, consider beforehand where you will hang it while you change the bent stud, do not hang the stator from its cable.

However, as the primary chain has broken, imho you would be wise to check the alignment of engine and clutch sprockets, particularly a triplex chain does not tolerate much misalignment. If you intend to check sprockets alignment, removing the stator completely might be wise, along with the rotor, then keeping the rotor within the stator to minimise magnetism loss.

 

[RobinV]

Thankyou for that. I have bought three original T140 studs and shall replace that bent one. Good idea on the heating of the wires exit sheath. My adjusting mechanism was bent up so I bought a good used assembly. I certainly do appreciate your expertise. Robin.

 

[speedrattle]

you did indeed came out of that one smelling like a rose. balled up chains can break the case if they jam

 

[RobinV]

I was able to remove the primary case components. I removed stator and rotor. I have installed good used stator bolts. There are enough threads to accommodate nice tight fit of the problem area bolt. I have mock fitted the stator and it fits nicely. Now to the welder to see what we can do. I found the case piece that holds the tension adjuster. I found that my engine sprocket was not a tight fit. I removed it easily by hand. So, along with a nos clutch basket, I have ordered a new old stock drive gear. I am feeling a little beleaguered at this point, having had little riding time, and lots of problem time. Hopefully this repair will work. Robin

 

[atomsplitter]

You might consider getting a modern Triumph like a T100 or T120 (Speed 400 is a bargain) to add to the stable for those days when the T140 is on your lift. I have a full stable at present, so no down time when riding weather appears, and my Trophy needs a new swingarm.

 

[RobinV]

Perhaps not a bad idea. I really enjoy my RE500 Bullet for back roads. I have everything cleaned and ready for the welder. A concern here is that someone has already been in to this side. No lock tab washer on the rotor. Red locktite is probably OK. Critical, of course, is the stator alignment. Another thing is there was no shim between drive gear and bearing. Perhaps not needed. I will have to learn how to measure this. Maybe Rudie might give me some tips. Or I will check with the manual on the procedure. Or just rely on common sense, an asset not valued much by todays' folk. Thanks, Robin

 

[Rudie]

No lock tab washer on the rotor.

People who should know say the later 21-7024 washer:-

... is better.

stator alignment.

Method I have used for many years is one I read on an internet forum. Measure rotor o.d. and stator i.d., assemble rotor and stator off the bike with shims centering the rotor inside the stator (if using metal, use non-ferrous (bits of aluminium drink can?), leave enough metal protruding beyond the rotor/stator to be grabbed easily by pliers). Attempting to fit assembly on crank and stator mountings will indicate any stator mounting stud(s) not parallel with the crank.

Reason to do the above is there is not sufficient clearance between rotor and stator fitted separately to move stator studs sideways to obtain the required clearance.

Note the method above is tedious to orientate rotor keyway with stator stud holes before the assembly can even be trial fitted on crank and stator studs. However, moving or bending studs as required until the assembly slides on to both without binding means the clearance between rotor and stator will not change when the shims are removed.

no shim between drive gear and bearing. Perhaps not needed. I will have to learn how to measure this.

Workshop Manual Section C11 advises a straight edge pressed against clutch drum outer row of teeth, measure any gap between straight edge and engine sprocket outer row of teeth.

Only thing I would add is, if no gap at the engine sprocket teeth, also check with the straight edge pressed against the engine sprocket teeth for a gap at the clutch drum teeth, would indicate an engine sprocket not made correctly.

 

[Koko3052]

Before taking it to the welder, have a stud for the one that is missing and have a jig made to hold it as it needs to be so that the welder can weld around it with stud in place. This will “make” the threads that are missing as the aluminum won’t stick to the stud threads.

 

[Bloodknot]

Finally able to ride the T140. Dealt with several issues one by one. Right now running somewhat rich and will deal with that next I hope. Will probably drop both needles one notch. Three eight mile round trips on my test runs. OK. Decided to ride a little further today. After a visit with a friend, I got back on the Highway. Plenty of power and running at about 3200 rpm. Slower than most traffic around here, and not pushing the bike hard.
All of a sudden the engine stopped and the rear wheel locked up. A little bit of a sideways skid, and I pulled over. I thought that my transmission had locked up. Pulled in the clutch and was able to roll down to the next exit. There, I realized that I could shift from 5th back to N. OK, I thought. I'll just kick 'er over. Nope. Seized hard.
Started walking home to get the trailer, and a very nice person gave me a lift and saved me a 2-3 hour walk. God bless her!
Was thinking I would now learn how to build a T140 engine. Checked a few things and drained the oil, looked clean. Then reached in to check tension on the primary chain. What chain? Nothing to check.
So off comes the cover, and sure enough the chain was broken, and in a few pieces. Was able to finegle and cut and remove most. Engine sprocket still good and the little motor spins free as new.
I will remove what is still jammed at the clutch hub this week. There was no leak and the primary chaincase looks to be undamaged.
So I feel very lucky and have a few teeth missing on the clutch basket. Will look to replace that. Close call there alright.!

I had that very same thing happen to me on the way back from the Lion Rally in Belgium in the early 70s. We were two up and I had just pulled off the motorway,where we had been doing a steady 80 for the last hour, onto the off ramp. The horseshoe spring link had snapped in half and the chain had piled up on top of the clutch drum.

In those days I used to carry a comprehensive selection of tools including a short length of primary chain. One of our group took my chain splitter and hammer and disassembled the mangled links and, selecting the best bits, rebuilt sufficient links to make up the shortfall.

The ironic thing was, having “lost” the chaincase gasket we reassembled it with just gasket sealant which prooved to be a better seal than I had ever previously achieved with a gasket.

 

[Lordmac]

Dang! Bummer! That sucks! I HATE it when that happens!

Yeah, good idea to find out why that happened so it doesn't happen again. I've been looking at those belt-drive set-ups, but, they be awfully pricey. But maybe not . . .

Can you really get that cracked aluminum repaired? And if so, how is it done without taking the whole engine apart? I should like to see what that looks like after any repairs are completed.

I am including a photo of what the engine casing looks like before being et-up by an errant chain, just for reference and perusal purposes.
Hope everything goes smoothly. We need all the T140Vs out there we can get . . .

 

[RobinV]

It is at the shop now. My friend has been working on these types of repairs for 40 years. And yes, I will post photos of the finished product. I appreciate everyones' tips. I was able to mount the stud securely as there were still enough threads to do so. I will have to research proper setup of rotor. Read something about maybe needing to bend studs to do so. However it slips on easily. Robin.

 

[Rudie]

will have to research proper setup of rotor. Read something about maybe needing to bend studs to do so. However it slips on easily.

The significance is not the stator fitting the mounting studs, it is the fitted stator relative to the fitted rotor - you must be able to measure at least 0.008" clearance all the way around (consider a brass or other non ferrous feeler gauge for accuracy).

 

[grandpaul]

Speed 400 is a bargain

It is only a bargain IF YOU KNOW IN ADVANCE WHAT YOU ARE GETTING!

I wish we'd have known. The bike is framed to suit a 6' tall rider with 36" inseam. It is geared to hit red line in 1st gear at about 5 MPH (and similar high revs in all other gears).

If you are tall, and not planning a lot of highway use, it is a bargain, yes.

Both issues can be fixed - Under $50 for a one-tooth-larger drive sprocket, and about $200 to lower the rear shock (forks can be lowered easily, for free). The $200 figure includes shortening the kickstand after you've lowered the bike.

$4,995 USD List Price becomes $6,800 out-the-door, just so you'll be aware. (and if you are not tall, add the $250 to lower the bike)

 

[Bloodknot]

It is only a bargain IF YOU KNOW IN ADVANCE WHAT YOU ARE GETTING!

I wish we'd have known. The bike is framed to suit a 6' tall rider with 36" inseam. It is geared to hit red line in 1st gear at about 5 MPH (and similar high revs in all other gears).

If you are tall, and not planning a lot of highway use, it is a bargain, yes.

Both issues can be fixed - Under $50 for a one-tooth-larger drive sprocket, and about $200 to lower the rear shock (forks can be lowered easily, for free). The $200 figure includes shortening the kickstand after you've lowered the bike.

$4,995 USD List Price becomes $6,800 out-the-door, just so you'll be aware. (and if you are not tall, add the $250 to lower the bike)

Can you please explain how you arrive at the $1,805 additional cost. TMF, a well known UK YouTuber who always quotes his height as 5’8” with an inseam of 32” never mentioned his lacking in the vertical dimension being a problem when he had a Speed 400 on loan from Triumph for a couple of weeks. Whether you buy it in the US or the UK the price is 4,995 so with the GBP - USD exchange rate over 1.3 you guys are getting a real bargain. It’s the same with Apple products, a real con.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63sSnE9i3X8

 

[grandpaul]

Can you please explain how you arrive at the $1,805 additional cost. TMF, a well known UK YouTuber who always quotes his height as 5’8” with an inseam of 32” never mentioned his lacking in the vertical dimension being a problem when he had a Speed 400 on loan from Triumph for a couple of weeks. Whether you buy it in the US or the UK the price is 4,995 so with the GBP - USD exchange rate over 1.3 you guys are getting a real bargain. It’s the same with Apple products, a real con

The $1,800 additional was tax, title, license, dealer prep, etc, etc. THEN, add $125 for the Lust spring cup, and a few bucks for welding wire & spray paint to shorten the kickstand.

My 32" inseam was a "tip-toe" from new, BARELY tip-toe. Now, it's flat-footed.

On the OTHER hand, and CRITICAL was my wyfe's 29" inseam! After all, it's HER bike! Just now, she is square on the balls of her feet, heels in the air unless she wears 2" heels. That will simply have to do, for now. There is NO KNOWN cheaper solution to lower the bike (YET) for less than $400+ and that is NOT acceptable.

 

[Bloodknot]

The $1,800 additional was tax, title, license, dealer prep, etc, etc. THEN, add $125 for the Lust spring cup, and a few bucks for welding wire & spray paint to shorten the kickstand.

My 32" inseam was a "tip-toe" from new, BARELY tip-toe. Now, it's flat-footed.

On the OTHER hand, and CRITICAL was my wyfe's 29" inseam! After all, it's HER bike! Just now, she is square on the balls of her feet, heels in the air unless she wears 2" heels. That will simply have to do, for now. There is NO KNOWN cheaper solution to lower the bike (YET) for less than $400+ and that is NOT acceptable.

Ah! So a large proportion of the $1,805 had nothing to do with adjusting the ride height

FYI the UK on the road price is £5,195, an increase of £200 on list which includes first registration fee, Vehicle Excise Duty, manufacturer’s delivery to retailer, number plate, petrol, first service labour† and VAT @ 20%, 2 years complimentary Triumph Assist cover with every new Triumph. European Rescue now included.