T140E Oil Pressure

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dashfixer, when you rebuilt this motor, did you check the clearances on the crankshaft to connecting rod shell bearings? if the clearances are excessive due to wear, the primary resistance to oil flow is reduced, and your oil pressure will be reduced.
 
So the engine warms up the oil pressure drops. What’s the spec for the operating oil pressure on this motorcycle? Ok, 65 to 80 from previous post. I think you definitely have issues.
The manual says 65 to 80 psi which I think is one of the many mis-prints as the pressure relief valve operates at 60psi so you should never have more than 60psi pressure.
 
dashfixer, when you rebuilt this motor, did you check the clearances on the crankshaft to connecting rod shell bearings? if the clearances are excessive due to wear, the primary resistance to oil flow is reduced, and your oil pressure will be reduced.
Yes the crank shaft was reconditioned with new over sized shell bearings fitted.
 
I spoke to an old Triumph expert at our bike club about this. His answer was don't worry about it as it runs roughly 10psi per 1000rpm. He asked if I didn't have the oil pressure gauge would I be concerned, the answer to that is no. So for now I'm not going to worry about it. By the way the oil pressure warning light comes on supposedly at 3 to 5 psi according again to the manual.

Does any one know what the normal diameter of the crankshaft is where the oil seal sits. The reason I'm asking is that this crank is reconditioned but I'm not sure if that part of the crank has been re-ground. I have rebuilt the engine assuming it hasn't been ground so with a standard oil seal. It occurred to me that it might need a 20thou under size seal.
 
So the engine warms up the oil pressure drops. What’s the spec for the operating oil pressure on this motorcycle?
The manual says 65 to 80 psi which I think is one of the many mis-prints as the pressure relief valve operates at 60psi so you should never have more than 60psi pressure.
You are assuming the misprint is in the "Normal running" pressure range. As the original Smiths version of the 60-3719 switch was also fitted to triples, that have a higher "Normal running" pressure (75-85 psi), it is the "Pressure release operates ... 60 lb./sq.in." that is the misprint.

Also, that does not mean the oil pressure will not ever exceed 80 psi; cold oil, triple engine with a good oil pump will peg a 100 psi gauge no problem.

normal diameter of the crankshaft is where the oil seal sits.
"When All Else Fails, RTFM". ;)
CRANKSHAFT
Main bearing (timing side) size and type ... 72 mm. x 30 mm. x 19 mm. Ball race.
Main bearing journal diameter (timing side) ... 1.1812/1,1808 (30/29.99 mm.)

crank shaft was reconditioned with new over sized shell bearings fitted.
That was not what @speedrattle asked ... He asked:-
when you rebuilt this motor, did you check the clearances on the crankshaft to connecting rod shell bearings?
If you did not actually check the clearances, you will not be happy to learn that at least some new shell bearings are so poorly sized they give the "excessive clearances" @speedrattle mentioned when new, no wear necessary. (n) I read recently on a triple forum of one engineer who starts with shells a second undersize smaller than apparently necessary, bores the 'over-undersize' shells to suit the actual journal diameters he has on the given crank in front of him. :(

I spoke to an old Triumph expert at our bike club about this. His answer was don't worry about it as it runs roughly 10psi per 1000rpm.
"Ten psi per thousand rpm" is another measure of hot oil pressure favoured by some people as a reason for not stripping an engine; however, equals 35 psi @ 3,500 rpm ...

He asked if I didn't have the oil pressure gauge would I be concerned, the answer to that is no.
Some time ago, triple owner I know, no oil pressure gauge on the bike, just saved his engine from going bang at 5,000 rpm. Cause was the dpo had replaced the standard reinforced rubber oil hoses with unreinforced, :rolleyes: one had collapsed when it got hot. Engine still required a complete rebuild, including one rod with oval bigend that was within a few seconds of seizing completely and breaking. I have seen the bill, still eye wateringly expensive.

oil pressure warning light comes on supposedly at 3 to 5 psi
That is much too low to run plain bearings even at tickover.

If you consider an oil pressure gauge equivalent to a speedometer, there is a good reason why no jurisdiction on earth allows replacement of a vehicle's speedometer with a simple light that goes out at walking speed ... :cool:
 
When All Else Fails, RTFM". ;)
CRANKSHAFT
Main bearing (timing side) size and type ... 72 mm. x 30 mm. x 19 mm. Ball race.
Main bearing journal diameter (timing side) ... 1.1812/1,1808 (30/29.99 mm.)
I think I should reply "RTFQ"
The question being does anyone know the normal diameter of the crank where the oil seal sits, not the main bearing journals. I can read the manual and there is no mention of the outside diameter of the timing end of the crank going through the oil feed seal, my guess is it's about 0.625. I'm thinking that if the recon crank has been re-ground then I should fit an undersized oil seal as the oil could be pushing past the seal especially when it is hot and viscosity is much thinner.
 
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oil pressure warning light comes on supposedly at 3 to 5 psi
That is much too low to run plain bearings even at tickover.

If you consider an oil pressure gauge equivalent to a speedometer, there is a good reason why no jurisdiction on earth allows replacement of a vehicle's speedometer with a simple light that goes out at walking speed ...

I know, I put that on as some people were asking about the pressure warning light.
 
If you did not actually check the clearances, you will not be happy to learn that at least some new shell bearings are so poorly sized they give the "excessive clearances" @speedrattle mentioned when new, no wear necessary. (n) I read recently on a triple forum of one engineer who starts with shells a second undersize smaller than apparently necessary, bores the 'over-undersize' shells to suit the actual journal diameters he has on the given crank in front of him. :(
The crank shaft was re-conditioned and dynamically balanced by SRM who I believe have loads of experience with these engines. I would hope that they measured and fitted the shell bearings along with the con-rods correctly.
 
Out of interest I have a small collection of new crank shaft/exhaust camshaft oil seals, part number 70-4568, obtained from different spares suppliers. In total 5 different suppliers supplying different manufactures oil seals. All the seals have the same external diameters, but every manufacturers seals internal diameters are different. They range from 15.0mm to 13.7mm via 14.7, 14.4, and 14.0. Now it isn't easy to measure the internal diameters because they flex, but I've used metric drill shafts that pass through the seal just touching but without deforming the lip. I would really like to know which is the correct size and how much should the oil seal lip deform to create the correct seal around the shaft. Anyone know?
 
I have opened up the timing case and looked at the seals. Both are standard size Pioneer Weston and have no apparent damage. I've measured both the exhaust camshaft and crankshaft seal bearing surfaces. The camshaft is bang on 0.625 and the crankshaft is 0.620. I would say that the crankshaft is 5 thou undersize not small enough for an undersize seal but as I don't know what the size of the crankshaft should be I can't be certain.
 

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