T140 clutch/gearchange problem

[old flyblown]

Hello. We have just purchased a1977 T140 Bonneville( for the lovely Mrs Old Flyblown). Its been sitting around unused for sometime. Motor starts up and sounds sweet. However it seems impossible to select neutral when engine is running. Also hits neutral between the gears when shifting. I pulled the clutch apart and fitted new clutch plates as the old ones were a bit worn, set the clutch so that it spins true and am dissapointed the problem has not improved.Still wont select neutral with motor idling,false neutrals changing through gears. Am I missing something here? any advice appreciated.

 

[The Seeker]

It sounds more like a gearbox problem than it does the clutch. Perhaps in the gear selector levers inside?

Gearboxes are beyond my pay grade, but GrandPaul will probably stop by and have a better answer for you soon. He's the go-to guy here on TT for serious technical troubles with these old machines.

All I can ask/recommend is to drain the gearbox and make sure it's refilled with the proper weight gearbox oil (or at least check it to be sure it's full).

 

[Rocky]

Yes, my first impression was that it's probably in the gearbox rather than the clutch - more so now since you have gone through the clutch.
The gearbox is not my strong suit either so I hope GrandPaul drops in with some advice.

 

[CarlS]

I,too, suspect the gearbox. GP or Otherwise will be the ones to help you with this.

 

[otherwise]

Hello. We have just purchased a1977 T140 Bonneville( for the lovely Mrs Old Flyblown). Its been sitting around unused for sometime. Motor starts up and sounds sweet. However it seems impossible to select neutral when engine is running. Also hits neutral between the gears when shifting. I pulled the clutch apart and fitted new clutch plates as the old ones were a bit worn, set the clutch so that it spins true and am dissapointed the problem has not improved.Still wont select neutral with motor idling,false neutrals changing through gears. Am I missing something here? any advice appreciated.

Question, can you find neutral reasonably easy when the engine is switched off?

 

[old flyblown]

Thanks for the feedback so far. Today a fellow from the "Brittish motorcycle club of Tasmania" who is well versed in old triumphs dropped in to have a look at the bike. His opinion was that the clutch seemed fine and was working how it should. I guess I should have mentioned in my original post that this particular bike was purchased off a person who had ridden it once in the three years he had owned it. Whats more it had sat in someone else's loungeroom unused for twenty before before that. As a matter of course I changed the gearbox and engine oils as soon as I got it home. So the advice I got today was that the gearbox would be a bit gummed up from sitting idle for so long and that with a bit of use things should sort themselves out. I guess this makes sense as I once pulled the gearbox from a 1967 Kawasaki A7 Avenger apart that had sat for over 30 years and it seemed to be seized. It was obvious though that the oil had dried out between the components and sort of glued everything together. A dissassembly oiling and reassembly fixed it like new. So hoping the advice is correct. If this seems like a bad plan any comments would be appreciated. Just noticed your question "Otherwise" Yes it does select neutral reasonably easy with motor not running.

 

[otherwise]

Quote,
"Just noticed your question "Otherwise" Yes it does select neutral reasonably easy with motor not running".
Given your previous post, I'd do exactly as suggested with the oil and a bit of use. If that fails to sort your problem then I'd be back looking very hard at the clutch. I won't say any more until you do the oil / use thing.
Look forward to your future glowing report.

 

[Silli]

Is there an "ungumming" product like some kind of detergent oil - run the bike on the stand and let the gearbox sort of clean itself. ??

 

[The Seeker]

I wonder if a bit of kerosene in the gearbox would ungum it....of course you'd drain and refill with proper weight gear lube afterwards?



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[devo]

I wonder if a bit of kerosene in the gearbox would ungum it....of course you'd drain and refill with proper weight gear lube afterwards?



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A very good point AJ.
I do know that back in the day we would idle a car on a 50/50 mix of kero and cheap oil till hot to flush out an overly dirty engine.
Thankfully,modern oils have put an end to that necessity.

 

[CarlS]

Harry is spot on; we did the same.

 

[The Seeker]

A very good point AJ.
I do know that back in the day we would idle a car on a 50/50 mix of kero and cheap oil till hot to flush out an overly dirty engine.
Thankfully,modern oils have put an end to that necessity.

That's where I got that idea.

I've even put brake fluid in the oil in an old Triumph or MG CAR engine to make the LEATHER front oil seals swell-up and reseal before. It works like a charm!

 

[devo]

yup, good stuff that brake fluid.
Used to mix that 50/50 with kero as well to use as a spray on lube and anti squeak on all the suspension rubbers.
Especially usefull on the early fords.

 

[CarlS]

I had forgotten all about that. We used to routinely spray those old suspension rubbers.

 

[old flyblown]

Well, the saga continues.Now have the gearbox pulled apart. It wasn't gummed up. Mainshaft selector fork is "blued" and a tiny bit bent.Not much(a flea's whisker) Also 4th gear on mainshaft seems....maybe,possibly,slightly worn.Have decided to replace both and see what happens.The gearboxes are actually not that scary to dismantle once you have no choice (I was expecting bits,cogs,gears,springs,etc... to spring out everywhere....but no,thankfully) Will keep up to date once the bits have arrived and its all back in place.

 

[DaveM]

The first time I had to take apart a gearbox I felt the same way and was expecting to never get it working again but once open it was really not that bad

 

[The Seeker]

The part that drives me nuts on old Triumphs is getting the kicker back into position......it's a bit tricky


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[old flyblown]

Finally have the problem sorted. On the first disassembly of the gearbox the mainshaft selector fork was blued,it also appeared to be a slightly sloppy fit in the corresponding gear so whilst the gearbox was apart the decision was made to replace both parts. Upon reassembly and subsequent test ride the disappointment of still having the same problem was almost overwhelming. On the next gearbox disassembly the decision was made to replace the gear selector/cam plate for no other reason than everything else looked fine. When the new cam plate arrived in the mail it was a lighter designed aftermarket type one however the working parts,teeth and cam grooves all looked the same and didn't make the old one seem particularly worn. Upon reassembly the gears all work a treat, which is a relief. Mrs Old Flyblown can't wait to ride it now.

 

[DaveM]

Good going, pity you did not pick this up the first time pulling a gearbox is no fun

 

[Rocky]

Good going