Rim / Wheel Options

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Duck749

Active Member
After getting the bike started (‘75 T160), now trying to get it rolling and working brakes. Looking at some options for the rims, I have original spoke rims. Bike currently has Morris mag rims, rear has a flat spot in rim which needs to be straightened. Asking around there is a company I found able to do this for $200. I am now contemplating powder coating rim and hubs gloss black with stainless spokes. This keeps look of the bike while also bringing some originality back. Besides, I am cautious on straightening rim and what impact it has on strength. Since the also need to be finished, cost differences isn’t that much apart.

Cleaning the rims I found the following markings:

front rim
Jones
WM 2.19
37-4129

rear rim
Dunlop
WM 3-19

Was it normal to get two different manufacturers on new bike in 1975? I have no reason to believe PO installed different rear rim.

Second question, has anyone changed from rear 19” and gone to 18” to get better selection of tires?
 
Bike currently has Morris mag rims
Cleaning the rims I found the following markings:

front rim
Jones
WM 2.19
37-4129

rear rim
Dunlop
WM 3-19
This is confused:-

. There is no such thing as "Morris mag rims"; complete 7 spoke aluminium alloy wheels by Morris were an 80 on option on twins. If your bike had these wheels, the rear would be 18" or 16".

. The markings you have posted found on the rims say they are standard chromed steel, likely original. Jones and Dunlop were both rim suppliers to BSA/Triumph, Jones generally supplied Small Heath (BSA), Dunlop generally supplied Meriden (Triumph). Before the sit-in at Meriden from September 1973, Trident engines were assembled at Small Heath then trucked to Meriden for assembly into cycle parts and dispatch. After the sit-in, when triples were assembled completely at Small Heath, parts not required for the twins - e.g. 19" rear rims - were cleared out of Meriden to Small Heath, that could be the source of the Dunlop rear rim.

contemplating powder coating rim and hubs gloss black with stainless spokes. This keeps look of the bike while also bringing some originality back.
This is also confusing; as original, T160's had the chromed steel rims, polished aluminium alloy hubs, galvanised steel spokes.

Fwiw, I always use stainless spokes and polished aluminium alloy rims (the latter for some unsprung weight reduction on Triumphs), aluminium alloy hubs are polished (standard) and clear coated, the latter because it is difficult to clean away any subsequent corrosion. When selecting alloy rims, I specifically avoid the style with the ridge (aka "shoulder") around the circumference on each side. Any observer has to look hard to see the rims and spokes are not original. :cool:

anyone changed from rear 19” and gone to 18” to get better selection of tires?
This has been a regular change on triples for decades. However, the best tyres - Dunlop K81 TT100, Avon AM26 Roadrider, Continental "ClassicAttack" radials - have always been available in both 19" and 18" rear.

If you decide to use an 18" rim:-

. You do not fit the same width - 4.10 or 100/90 - tyre. A tyre's overall diameter is a function of its width; to have a rear overall diameter the same as the original 19" tyre, you must fit a wider 18" tyre, 4.00x18 (Roadrider) 4.25/85x18 (TT100) or 110/90x18 (Roadrider or ClassicAttack) is usual.

. The edge of the wider tyre will rub on the chainguard; this is not a problem, the standard chainguard has relatively generous clearance from the chain. With the chainguard in place, fit the complete wheel as far forward as possible in the swinging arm, rotate the wheel a few times, remove it again, the tyre will have left a mark on the chainguard. Remove the chainguard, use tin snips to cut out a triangular piece around the mark up to the top of the chainguard (allow for tyre movement rearwards for chain adjustment), refit chainguard and wheel, the piece missing from the chainguard will be invisible behind the tyre. (y)

Rim widths
Apologies if you know the following already; if not, for clarity:-

. The two you have found are "WM2" and "WM3" (the "19" is the nominal diameter),

. "WM" is the rim profile and cross-section, "2" is a rim that measures 1.85 inches between the tyre bead seats, "3" is a rim that is 2.15 inches between the tyre bead seats.

. You might find new rims labelled "WM2" and "WM3" but they are not, the WM cross-section was obsolete decades ago, classic bike rim sellers simply use the WM and numbers designations to avoid confusing buyers.

Be aware the rim widths fitted to any T160 originally are one size too narrow for modern tyres - they were too narrow for the original tyres but BSA/Triumph and subsequently NVT chose to ignore the tyre companies' advice. :mad: Only when the Meriden Co-op fitted complete alloy wheels did they have the tyre companies' recommended wider rims. When selecting new rims, use 2.15/WM3 19" on the front, 2.50/WM4 19" or 18" on the rear.

working brakes
The standard single disc front brake is borderline 'adequate' today; as you have Ducatis, if you use the T160's performance and/or carry a passenger, I strongly suspect you will not be happy with it. Tbh, it was rather marginal when the bikes were new but contemporary Japanese bikes had the same; within a few years, all the Japanese bikes had twin front discs; had the T160 remained in production, I suspect it would have had the same. If you can afford it, I advise the upgrade (I had a short period many years ago with one T160 with twin discs and another with a single disc, swapping from twin disc to single caused some underwear filling moments ... :cool:).

Another disadvantage of the front single disc is, although it is merely adequate at stopping the bike, it twists the forks depending on the braking force. (n) Ime, this causes rapid deterioration of the standard 97-4001 fork seals, the left one so rapidly I used to change them at a 3000 mile service to avoid time off the road before the next 3000 mile service. :( When I fitted twin discs, I also upgraded my T160's to the 97-7010 Leak Proof seals and retainers Meriden fitted as standard from 78. Seal problem solved. (y)

Bike was put away in ‘82 and not started or had anything done since then.
OEM brake components were by AP Lockheed. The company recommended replacing all rubber hoses before they were ten years old.

Regrettably, AP closed in 2000. What remains of the Lockheed part does not make replacement rubber hoses, they are available but only as pattern parts.

For that reason alone, I would not simply replace like for like. However, as I also fitted twin front discs, I began making my own brake hoses from Goodridge parts back in the 1980's, I have not bought a standard brake hose since. Scary though this might look, in fact Goodridge specifically designed some systems to be assembled with simple hand tools, put instructions in the back of their paper catalogues and they are still available online. All this was/is available in the litigious US so must be pretty much foolproof. ;)

Another alternative is Goodridge Buildaline - essentially different lengths of braided hose with end fittings, screw together same as standard rubber hoses but Goodridge also make a variety of adaptors so custom systems can be assembled.

Happy to expand on any of the above options - links, Goodridge part #, etc. - if you wish.
 
If your bike had these wheels, the rear would be 18" or 16".

The bike has the 7" spoke as you indicated, it is 19" front and rear.

This is also confusing; as original, T160's had the chromed steel rims, polished aluminium alloy hubs, galvanised steel spokes.

My intent is not to bring the bike back to original, rather preserve what the previous owner had did. It is what I will say, highly modified. I am finding things that the previous owner could have done better, or should have done. Along this journey there are also some issues which I am trying to resolve allowing the bike to once again be roadworthy with reliability. I am fortunate to have the original items which came off the bike when he went through and customized it in the late 70's/early 80's. My thought process on the rims is to refinish in black to maintain its current styling and look over originality.

Appreciate the tire, rim and brake information, this gives me some good food for thought on next steps.
 
complete 7 spoke aluminium alloy wheels by Morris were an 80 on option on twins. If your bike had these wheels, the rear would be 18" or 16".
The bike has the 7" spoke as you indicated, it is 19" front and rear.
Photograph please.

The only way I can think this is possible with Morris wheels is the previous owner combined another front wheel with the bearing carriers from a rear wheel. However, I cannot think of a reason to do this instead of simply fitting the 18" rear wheel. :confused:
 
Attached are a couple of pictures:
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1CEB4A1C-3526-4191-A1DA-9B5100CDAEFD.jpeg
BB3D8E01-188E-434E-9E9B-3BB1882EC8B7.jpeg
 
View attachment 53167 shows an 18" rear wheel fitted to the bike.

View attachment 53166 shows two front wheels.

View attachment 53165 and View attachment 53168 show the bearing carrier with eight holes has been modified with four 7/16" i.d. holes, probably intended to fasten the sprocket. However, both photos. show only the four original 3/8" holes in the wheel itself, so how was the sprocket fastened if the 19" wheel was used on the rear of the bike?
 
View attachment 53167 shows an 18" rear wheel fitted to the bike.

View attachment 53166 shows two front wheels.

View attachment 53165 and View attachment 53168 show the bearing carrier with eight holes has been modified with four 7/16" i.d. holes, probably intended to fasten the sprocket. However, both photos. show only the four original 3/8" holes in the wheel itself, so how was the sprocket fastened if the 19" wheel was used on the rear of the bike?
The 19” wheel in the picture ext to the front wheel and with the hubs is the one which came off the rear of the bike. I think mounted it gives a visual that it is smaller.

There were four bolts which went through the hub that held the sprocket on. Then there were four additional bolts securing the disk brake that threaded into wheel.

I was able to pull the original rims out and disassemble for powder coating. The hubs had original bearings with the grease caps. When installing new bearings (sealed), there are no additional spacers or anything correct? install new bearings with an end cap?
93A0B038-3322-46F4-8A8B-56337A5D989F.jpeg
 
hubs had original bearings with the grease caps. When installing new bearings (sealed), there are no additional spacers or anything
Depends if the new bearings are the same width as the old; if they are not, axial adjustments to compensate will be necessary.

New bearings the same width as the old:-

. The drive side bearing requires the "Grease retainer" as it is also a spacer between the outer bearing race and the "shoulder" in the hub;

. The axial position of the timing side bearing in the hub is set from the drive side bearing at least primarily by the length of the "Inner sleeve". However, I cannot now remember whether the i.d. of the inner timing side "Dust cap" fits over the "Inner sleeve" or between it and the timing side bearing; either way it must still be fitted:-

.. i.d. of inner timing side "Dust cap" over "Inner sleeve" means it spaces the "Inner sleeve" centrally within the hub so the "Spindle" can be fitted;

.. i.d. of inner timing side "Dust cap" between "Inner sleeve" and bearing means the "Dust cap" is an additional spacer between the "Inner sleeve" and the bearing.

. Timing side bearing and outer timing side "Dust cap" fitted, the latter must be just clear of the circlip groove so the circlip can be fitted without any gap between it and the outer "Dust cap".
 
Making headway, powder coating back, hubs built, SS spokes added and rear wheel now dialed in for truing.
 

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Getting close - rear wheel complete, time to turn bike around on lift and get front end rebuilt. Once done then should be road worthy to dial carbs in and sort last gremlins out.

53D643E7-0190-4A8A-9023-EB9D9D9D433E.jpeg
 

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