New Old Guy With Questions

[turbo Bob]

My first post other than the introduction thread. I've been riding for 60 years and haven't been without some type of bike other than when I was in the military. My last kick start bike was a 1969 Norton Commando. Now I'm thinking about a 60/70s British bike either 500 or 650. I'm basically looking for pros and cons of each i.e. power difference, vibration difference, reliability etc. If the power is only slightly less are the prices for similar condition bikes a lot different or much more dependent on condition rather than CCs.
I hope I didn't ask too many questions right off the bat, If I did, I'll try to keep it to specific questions in the future.

 

[speedrattle]

nortons are high dollar these days. i paid $7000 for my 1970 commando about ten years ago.

how are your knees? you can reduce kickstart effort by lowering compression, and moder EI ignitions make em one kick starters anyway.

prices depend on the machine, rather than the cc. a well-sorted 1973 triumph tr5t can set you back $500, but theres a 67 bobber 650 on the internet now for $2500

 

[Rocky]

Ask all the questions you wish.
A lot depends on how you intend to ride an old bike and how much power you want. If you're just looking for a nice bike to cruise around on, then a 500/650 of the 1969/70 era is when Triumph got most things right and they are good bikes. Most want a 650 because it is a 650.
Both models have various versions as well as either single or twin carbs. The 500 would have less power and a bit less vibration than a 650.
There are so many variables and prices that it's hard to give specific answers.
I've never regretted having a 500 instead of a 650. The 500 is a satisfying cruiser at 55-65 mph.
This isn't a lot of help, but let's see if others will jump in and help out.

 

[turbo Bob]

Ask all the questions you wish.
A lot depends on how you intend to ride an old bike and how much power you want. If you're just looking for a nice bike to cruise around on, then a 500/650 of the 1969/70 era is when Triumph got most things right and they are good bikes. Most want a 650 because it is a 650.
Both models have various versions as well as either single or twin carbs. The 500 would have less power and a bit less vibration than a 650.
There are so many variables and prices that it's hard to give specific answers.
I've never regretted having a 500 instead of a 650. The 500 is a satisfying cruiser at 55-65 mph.
This isn't a lot of help, but let's see if others will jump in and help out.

Did you find the 500 easier or harder to start as far as effort.

 

[Rocky]

Did you find the 500 easier or harder to start as far as effort.

Mine is a single carb model and the compression is excellent at 9:1 and 34 hp. It's very easy to kick over and start.
If I'm correct, the twin carb models have the same compression and 39 hp.

 

[atomsplitter]

https://www.triumphtalk.com/threads/1960-triumph-3ta-21.60251/#post-359785

 

[speedrattle]

there are several aftermarket electric start kits for triumph 650/750s. arguably better than the factory version.

the price for that ^^^tr5t should have been $5000.

stock 650 triumphs and BSAs can be had for around $4000-5000. or lots more for special cases.

 

[JerryP]

I loved my old Triumph 500 cc "Jack Pine" and my old TR-6 with single carb and high pipes but I have to encourage you to take a test drive on one of the new 900 series bikes. No kick start needed and you'll likely spend more time driving than working on it. I'm 79 and the Street Scrambler is an EZ fit for us older riders. Seat height is low enough and it's not very long so moving it around the garage is not too challenging.

 

[Bloodknot]

If kick starting the machine is thought to be a problem there are two basic solutions, electric or compressed air.

The electric option has been tried utilising the cam timing gears and the primary drive on the other side of the machine. I understand that Triumph did try the timing gears but eventually discarded it because they were just not up to it. There is a kit out there but carefully read the caveats which don’t inspire much confidence.

So it really has to be done using the primary drive which will require a modified primary chaincase. I have seen one very competent diy conversion done by a good friend of mine but he is a skilled engineer and modified the primary chaincase himself.

The other option is using compressed air which doesn’t require any major modification to the engine/gearbox unit as it works on the kickstart lever. The system comprises an air ram and associated linkage to assist the kickstart action fed by a compressed air reservoir that you need to get refilled at a paintball or dive shop as the reservoirs are rated at 4,500psi and depending on size, 50 to 90 cu in will give between 90 and 160 operations. As the system reduces the working pressure to 90 psi it’s also possible to run it from your home compressor. The website is here and it will set you back a couple of grand USD.

 

[turbo Bob]

If kick starting the machine is thought to be a problem there are two basic solutions, electric or compressed air.

The electric option has been tried utilising the cam timing gears and the primary drive on the other side of the machine. I understand that Triumph did try the timing gears but eventually discarded it because they were just not up to it. There is a kit out there but carefully read the caveats which don’t inspire much confidence.

So it really has to be done using the primary drive which will require a modified primary chaincase. I have seen one very competent diy conversion done by a good friend of mine but he is a skilled engineer and modified the primary chaincase himself.

The other option is using compressed air which doesn’t require any major modification to the engine/gearbox unit as it works on the kickstart lever. The system comprises an air ram and associated linkage to assist the kickstart action fed by a compressed air reservoir that you need to get refilled at a paintball or dive shop as the reservoirs are rated at 4,500psi and depending on size, 50 to 90 cu in will give between 90 and 160 operations. As the system reduces the working pressure to 90 psi it’s also possible to run it from your home compressor. The website is here and it will set you back a couple of grand USD.

Yes, I read about the KickMagic system on this forum but I don't remember anyone saying they had bought one. As far as the newer bikes I just don't like the look, just doesn't bring me back to my youthful memories that brought me here in the first place. I have plenty of modern bikes that run worry free.

 

[Bloodknot]

I loved my old Triumph 500 cc "Jack Pine" and my old TR-6 with single carb and high pipes but I have to encourage you to take a test drive on one of the new 900 series bikes. No kick start needed and you'll likely spend more time driving than working on it. I'm 79 and the Street Scrambler is an EZ fit for us older riders. Seat height is low enough and it's not very long so moving it around the garage is not too challenging.

I have to agree with Jerry as we of a similar age. Whilst I absolutely love my Ducati and can’t wait to commence the refurb of my Tbird I came to realise that the day would come when the riding crouch of the Ducati was not going to be achievable on extended rides. So my criteria were. Lower seat height, lighter weight, some electronic aids like ABS and more power would be the icing on the cake. All of these were achieved with the purchase of the Striple. So as well as trying the Hinkley twins try out the triples as well, you will be amazed.

 

[Bloodknot]

Yes, I read about the KickMagic system on this forum but I don't remember anyone saying they had bought one. As far as the newer bikes I just don't like the look, just doesn't bring me back to my youthful memories that brought me here in the first place. I have plenty of modern bikes that run worry free.

I understand what you say about the looks but some of the Hinkley machines are pretty close to the late Meriden ones. This is my son’s 900 Thruxton.

 

[Rudie]

I understand that Triumph did try the timing gears but eventually discarded it

Meriden Co-op started with using the timing gears, continued with them until they went bust; ended up modifying almost every component in and around the cam drive except the crankcase.

There is a kit out there

Standard late Triumph cam drive parts.

it really has to be done using the primary drive which will require a modified primary chaincase.
The other option is using compressed air

There is another electric option, using the primary - Triumph Electric Start kit £2499 - Shropshire Classic Motorcycles - pre-79 twin, electrics must also be changed to negative earth.

 

[atomsplitter]

Yes, I read about the KickMagic system on this forum but I don't remember anyone saying they had bought one. As far as the newer bikes I just don't like the look, just doesn't bring me back to my youthful memories that brought me here in the first place. I have plenty of modern bikes that run worry free.

Is starting the bike the real problem? How often you planning to use an acquired ancient scoot? If you want a nostalgic ride where break downs are common and parts fall off or get jettisoned under hard acceleration it's hard to beat anything built in the 1960's. It might help if you started with your mission statement for your intended ride so we as a collective get a clearer picture of what might fit.

 

[Bloodknot]

………………………..If you want a nostalgic ride where break downs are common and parts fall off or get jettisoned under hard acceleration it's hard to beat anything built in the 1960's. …………………….

-

 

[speedrattle]

no question the old stuff requires more frequent involvement, but thats part of owning that type of machine. if you dont like getting wet, buying a sailboat is an inappropriate decision.

but when the weather is good i ride old stuff every day- to work, to the store, anywhere. the machine is just a machine. whether it works for you depends on what youre looking for.

 

[Vector]

The two best days of a boat owner life, the day he buys and the day he sells.

 

[oldjack]

I loved my old Triumph 500 cc "Jack Pine" and my old TR-6 with single carb and high pipes but I have to encourage you to take a test drive on one of the new 900 series bikes. No kick start needed and you'll likely spend more time driving than working on it. I'm 79 and the Street Scrambler is an EZ fit for us older riders. Seat height is low enough and it's not very long so moving it around the garage is not too challenging.

I agree!
I've always loved old classic cars & bikes, but a good mate has a collection of old Hondas, & I've ridden them, (early 450, CB K1, first model gold wing etc.) & I couldn't wait to get back on my (retro? BMW R9T!). I've also got a mate with the best restored '69 "Pommie tank" Bonneville in Australia in his collection, but never rides it.
It's amazing how a GT Falcon was the ultimate thrill in '72 but a current family sedan would kill it (if it wasn't speed limited!) .
But I get it, if you have the desire & patience, enjoy it!
I still enjoy riding motorcycles (quite briskly), but take them through the car wash, park them , then ride them next time.
When I was 16, I bought a beautiful Matchless G11, but washed it before, my first ride with my 'new' mates , couldn't start it for days! But you learn!
I've had about 60 bikes , just sold my Harley Road King , but love my VTR Honda & possibly my best all round bike Triumph Tiger 900GT , love it!
Sorry about the life story, was having a beer!

 

[Bloodknot]

A satisfying spanner session on the bike is just as pleasurable as riding it, I find.

 

[Mcsurf]

I’m 74 so I came up kicking bikes. My ride is a 1979 T140, which in my humble opinion, is the closest to a reliable daily rider Triumph ever made. Generally starts on the first kick owing to the boost from the pointless ignition, the last series of Amals works reliably and doesn’t need to be tickled getting gas on your fingers,, and has enough go power to comfortably keep up with traffic. Vintage with reliability