Help With My 3ta

[russ75]

Hi
I am a total new comer to classic bikes, I have a 1962 3ta, and whilst it’s been running great. It has developed an oil leak which when running runs from a black rubber pipe below the engine. Any help would be much appreciated. Should there be a black pipe hanging down , see pics attached ( there is water in the background please ignore, that’s not the oil)
Russ

 

[atomsplitter]

I'm sure someone with knowledge will chime in soon. If my memory serves those bikes used a dry sump and oil tank that was a 'total loss' design as it had a feeder tube to the chain oiler and the system lost level over time due to dripping oil on the chain. Your bike may have been modified from that original design so I can't say what you have is normal or not. More pictures of where your bike is getting oily might help and where that black tube is mounted.

 

[Rudie]

Put the bike on either its centre or side stand, lie on the ground or floor beside the bike, head under the engine and confirm if the black rubber pipe is attached to the engine beside the gearbox final drive sprocket.

If the black rubber pipe is attached as I suspect, it is to the crankcase vent, the pipe will drip some oil, please define "oil leak".

If my memory serves those bikes used a dry sump and oil tank that was a 'total loss' design as it had a feeder tube to the chain oiler and the system lost level over time due to dripping oil on the chain. Your bike may have been modified from that original design so I can't say what you have is normal or not. More pictures of where your bike is getting oily might help and where that black tube is mounted.

This is confused.

The oil tank (under the seat) contains engine oil. The engine lubrication is not "total loss"; having been pumped into the crank and rocker spindles, oil drains to the bottom of the crankcase, is then scavenged back into the tank for reuse.

The "total loss" part you are thinking of is the primary chaincase; before the 70 model year, the chaincase held a separate small amount of oil intended just to lubricate the primary chain; before the 66 model year, there was a tube and jet beside the rear primary chaincase screw, that bled small amounts of primary oil to drip on the final drive chain. However, that is not the black rubber pipe in the o.p. photo.

Aside, pre 66 Triumph twin, primary cover removed for any reason, ime best to remove the chain oiler tube and jet from the primary side of the crankcase, blank off the hole with Triumph 70-6076, use a spray chain lube on the final drive chain.

 

[atomsplitter]

Thanks for the clarification Rudie. I bow to your expertise.

 

[russ75]

I'm sure someone with knowledge will chime in soon. If my memory serves those bikes used a dry sump and oil tank that was a 'total loss' design as it had a feeder tube to the chain oiler and the system lost level over time due to dripping oil on the chain. Your bike may have been modified from that original design so I can't say what you have is normal or not. More pictures of where your bike is getting oily might help and where that black tube is mounted.

Hi please see more pics below, I’m beginning to think it’s more serious as the pipe appears to be a breather

 

[atomsplitter]

Did you see Rudie's post? If it's the crankcase breather some oil is expected and thus not a 'leak.' I should note that the crankcase breather is to prevent pressure buildup in the crankcase. Newer bikes usually route the breather pipe to the air box so it maintains a slight negative pressure in the crankcase. Some oil vapor will condense in the tube on cool down and cause a slight drip.

 

[russ75]

Put the bike on either its centre or side stand, lie on the ground or floor beside the bike, head under the engine and confirm if the black rubber pipe is attached to the engine beside the gearbox final drive sprocket.

If the black rubber pipe is attached as I suspect, it is to the crankcase vent, the pipe will drip some oil, please define "oil leak".


This is confused.

The oil tank (under the seat) contains engine oil. The engine lubrication is not "total loss"; having been pumped into the crank and rocker spindles, oil drains to the bottom of the crankcase, is then scavenged back into the tank for reuse.

The "total loss" part you are thinking of is the primary chaincase; before the 70 model year, the chaincase held a separate small amount of oil intended just to lubricate the primary chain; before the 66 model year, there was a tube and jet beside the rear primary chaincase screw, that bled small amounts of primary oil to drip on the final drive chain. However, that is not the black rubber pipe in the o.p. photo.

Aside, pre 66 Triumph twin, primary cover removed for any reason, ime best to remove the chain oiler tube and jet from the primary side of the crankcase, blank off the hole with Triumph 70-6076, use a spray chain lube on the final drive chain.

Hi , yeah it’s pretty much runs out the tube. Certainly not a drip.

 

[atomsplitter]

Sounds like Rudie needs to weigh in on where to start looking. Oil should not 'run' out the breather pipe.

 

[Rudie]

I am a total new comer to classic bikes

beginning to think it’s more serious

pretty much runs out the tube.

The black rubber hose is attached to the standard crankcase vent.

Before you throw the bike under a bus:-

. After you start the engine, for how long does oil run out of the hose?

. Place a container under the end of the hose, start and run the engine, photograph how much oil is caught in the container before it stops running out of the hose.

. Have you been riding the bike regularly all through the winter and the problem started recently? Or has the bike been standing unused over the winter, the problem started when you started to use the bike again?

 

[russ75]

The black rubber hose is attached to the standard crankcase vent.

Before you throw the bike under a bus:-

. After you start the engine, for how long does oil run out of the hose?

. Place a container under the end of the hose, start and run the engine, photograph how much oil is caught in the container before it stops running out of the hose.

. Have you been riding the bike regularly all through the winter and the problem started recently? Or has the bike been standing unused over the winter, the problem started when you started to use the bike again?

 

[russ75]

Thanks, I have continued riding it (weather permitting) over winter on and off. The amount of oil continues to run out the pipe u til I turn it off. I only noticed the other day when I turned it over and left it running for a while. Other than that it seems to have run sweet

Cheers

 

[Rudie]

Before running the engine again: bike on the centrestand, place an empty container under the sump drain plug, remove the plug and filter gauze, allow the oil to drain from the sump into the container; when all the oil has drained, please measure and post how much has drained.

Also please post the approximate oil quantity in the tank. If your bike's oil tank cap does not have a dipstick: clench a fist, extend the middle finger, insert the finger into the tank filler hole until the clenched knuckles of the other fingers contact the tank, withdraw extended finger; oil quantity is approximately correct if oil is visible on the tip of the extended middle finger.

 

[russ75]

Before running the engine again: bike on the centrestand, place an empty container under the sump drain plug, remove the plug and filter gauze, allow the oil to drain from the sump into the container; when all the oil has drained, please measure and post how much has drained.

Also please post the approximate oil quantity in the tank. If your bike's oil tank cap does not have a dipstick: clench a fist, extend the middle finger, insert the finger into the tank filler hole until the clenched knuckles of the other fingers contact the tank, withdraw extended finger; oil quantity is approximately correct if oil is visible on the tip of the extended middle finger.

Thanks Rudie , I will try this tonight and let you know . Thanks for the advice

 

[Twinpots]

Hi
I am a total new comer to classic bikes, I have a 1962 3ta, and whilst it’s been running great. It has developed an oil leak which when running runs from a black rubber pipe below the engine. Any help would be much appreciated. Should there be a black pipe hanging down , see pics attached ( there is water in the background please ignore, that’s not the oil)
Russ

Check out "Classic British Spares" website. They have parts manuals for every triumph year and model. Take a look and you will see your bike does have a crank breather (the rubber hose) underneath and it does indeed appear to simply dump any drips onto the road! Kinda just in front of the rear tyre, go figure. Later bikes like my 67 Bonneville have the crankcase breather connected to the oil tank breather system via a T piece piece with a long breather hose then running to the rear number plate, rearward of the rear wheel, more sensible. I would guess anymore than the odd drip of oil would indicate excess crankcase pressure from poor piston bore clearance. If concerned then beg steal or borrow a compression tester and see what the readings are. Its a great little bike and you say it runs well so don't worry and don't overthink it. It really is the case with these old Triumphs to do the required and rather frequent service jobs but fix it when it breaks otherwise like me you will spend a fortune keeping it perfect. A great hobby though. I currently have my motor completely stripped and the crank out. Not cheap but I had all the alloy bits vapour blasted. Fantastic, looks brand new. Will go back together with all new everything.

 

[Rudie]

"Classic British Spares" website
have parts manuals for every triumph year and model. Take a look and you will see your bike does have a crank breather (the rubber hose) underneath and it does indeed appear to simply dump any drips onto the road

No. You have simply assumed what is drawn in the parts book is the same as what is in the o.p.'s photos. It is not. If you had entered the part number from the parts book into your computer's internet browser search, you should have found at least two different websites (one a long time Triumph dealer's) with the correct information.

Ime, the "hose" in the o.p.'s photos was fitted by a lazy previous owner who could not fit the correct hose and did not like the amount of oil being transferred by the chain from the end of the original vent spigot to the rear of the bike.

After you start the engine, for how long does oil run out of the hose?

The amount of oil continues to run out the pipe u til I turn it off.

I would guess anymore than the odd drip of oil would indicate excess crankcase pressure

You quoted the o.p.:-

I am a total new comer to classic bikes

... and he has not responded to my post #12, why "guess" when the o.p. has hardly posted any useful information so far?

don't overthink it.

Also don't underthink it.

 

[Twinpots]

Sorry Rudie but you have lost me now. Does the crankcase vent connect to somewhere else or does it simply allow oil onto the road?. The parts book simply shows a metal pipe fitted under the crankcase with a short rubber hose attached and gives part numbers. If that bike uses the vented oil to lubricate the rear chain then I agree the parts book does not make that clear. Mine as you know has an adjustable oil feed for the rear chain direct from the return oil feed from the top of the oil tank. I did try reconnecting briefly. Bad idea due to oil dripping on my driveway on my return. I suppose owners choice.

 

[Rudie]

Does the crankcase vent connect to somewhere else or does it simply allow oil onto the road?

The problem with almost any bike over sixty years old and still in use is it is unlikely to be exactly as it rolled out of the factory. In addition, Meriden never intended parts books as assembly instructions, and all parts books contain misprints. I usually simply arrange the ends of the crankcase and oil tank vent hoses to end somewhere discreet at the back of the bike.

The parts book simply shows a metal pipe fitted under the crankcase with a short rubber hose attached and gives part numbers.

If you had entered the part number from the parts book into your computer's internet browser search, you should have found at least two different websites (one a long time Triumph dealer's) with the correct information

... the listed E3078 hose is 8-1/2" long, it is not "short".

Mine
has an adjustable oil feed for the rear chain direct from the return oil feed from the top of the oil tank. I did try reconnecting briefly. Bad idea due to oil dripping on my driveway on my return.

Hot engine oil is an excellent lubricant inside an engine, useless on an unenclosed final drive chain; 21st century lubricants specifically for unenclosed final drive chains do a much better job.