Has anyone in Triumphtalk ever bought or been exposed to a full Europian Triumph Bonniville .

[wesleymarceaux]

Hello all,, I came across an unmolested 1968 Triumph Bonneville that took my breath away.. At 71 you'd think I have seen it all but not so. As soon as I saw it I bought it for $4000 dollars. The owner said it would not start and when it did it would backfire and run irratic and crazy. As soon as I started inspecting this beauty I noticed the speedometer was in killometers only. After further inspection I noticed this crazy chain oiling system the likes of which I have never seen. The tires had the original rubber tags sticking out and looks to be original . The mufflers are the Europian issue or shorts and a little louder than American Types. The reason for not starting or running well was the Ignition switch came unplugged from the rear and the rubber cover made it impossable to see. once started Vibration played havoc with the unplugged wires and produced some very interesting sounds. After a short tuneup the bike runs , and runs well except that when you give it the gas the engine comes alive like a 200 mph croutch rocket .. It lifts the front shocks fully extended and the exhaust instantly reports the change and the clutch starts slipping slowly and all manor of strange behavior comes from the engine. This thing goes 100mph so fast I could hardly believe my eyes. This is for a 1968 Triumph Bonni now not a modern 200+ Kawasaki . None the less the motorcycle performs differently than any other triumph I have ever had and I have had a dozen or more over my lifetime. I was thinking that agressive Cams but I also believe the Compression ratio is higher as well. I noticed there might be a 12 degree auto advance but the Cuarbs appear to be stock sizes . I have not had time to really make a professional inspection to date but looking forward to it.. Someone told me that Bikes sold in England were highly tuned and those headed for America were issued milder Cams and such..Is there any truth to this ?? I was also told that I could tell who purchased the bike from the factory by looking up the serial number. Can this be done also?? I have been out of the playground for a long time but I know there are some real smart cookies out there who know Triumph History. Can this bike be explained?? Thank you all for listening......Wesley

 

[grandpaul]

Welcome to the forum!

Very interesting.

I'd have to peruse my "Bonnie" book, but I don't think the mechanical specs were different for USA vs UK/ROW bikes...

 

[wesleymarceaux]

Mr GrandPaul I am sorry about the leg pulling but I am surprised you picked up the jest of the Question.. I have seen and owned several Triumphs but I have never witnessed anything like this one. I have never seen an American model with a different speedometer.. And I have never seen this type of oiling system either.. It appears to be all factory and not a personal modification.. By the same token I have never had a Triumph with a set of modified Camshafts so I am unformilure with engine behavior with them.. I have read in Triumph manuals that American models were detuned for the long open roads of the U.S.,,,and that those sold in England and Europe had a slightly more aggressive engine package .. My serial number is T120- DU 844 something..,,,,,,other than it being within the numbers made during those years I have nothing else to go on.. I have been occupied elsewhere and had little time for research lately. Don't know where to go even...

 

[triumph david]

The first Tri. i owned back in 1968 was one brought over from England by a oil patch worker, it was a 1966 model. I remember it had a chain oiler that dripped oil on the chain from a copper pipe running from a adjuster in the tank. Also the seller gave me a box with a set of cams in it that were supposed to be "racing cams", i never used them and don't know what happened to them. All i did was ride the crap out of that bike, out ran my girlfriend's vett on it one time.

 

[grandpaul]

I have never seen an American model with a different speedometer.. And I have never seen this type of oiling system either.. It appears to be all factory and not a personal modification.. By the same token I have never had a Triumph with a set of modified Camshafts so I am unformilure with engine behavior with them.. I have read in Triumph manuals that American models were detuned for the long open roads of the U.S.,,,and that those sold in England and Europe had a slightly more aggressive engine package ..

In North America, there are Mexican & Canadian bikes with KPH speedometers. These often make their way into the U.S.

The chain oiling system is basically a controlled oil leak. Most are shut off, as they should be. Engine oil is not the best for drive chains.

As far as the cams, I may have heard the exact opposite. Since the US roads are so long and open, the cams may have been spec'd for higher sustained speeds.

 

[Rudie]

Thread needs pictures but doesn't sound like a standard "European" Bonneville:-

. "Someone told me that Bikes sold in England were highly tuned" - if not the person that persuaded you out of four grand, someone with as much experience of "Bikes sold in England" as I have of being a Thai lady-boy ... And "Bikes sold in England" have never had "speedometer ... in killometers only", it's illegal.

. "Cams", "Compression ratio", "auto advance" are all exactly the same in both the '68 650 "Standard (Home) Edition" and '68 650 "Overseas Edition" parts books.

. "mufflers are the Europian issue or shorts" - '68 is just a 'transition' - from 'long' E4949 to 'short' E5866 - year:-

.. '67, 'long' E4949 is listed for T120's and TR6's in all markets;

.. '69, 'short' E5866 is listed for T120's and TR6's in all markets.

. "crazy chain oiling system" = pictures required.

tell who purchased the bike from the factory by looking up the serial number.

If you can get to Burton-on-Trent in the UK. There is the headquarters of the Vintage Motor Cycle Club; the Library holds (amongst other things) Meriden Dispatch Books, these list (amongst other things) the UK dealer or overseas importer where a given bike was dispatched.

Or the VMCC or the Triumph Owners' MCC will supply the details for a fee and some verification.

bought it for $4000 dollars.

I hope that translates in the US to what we'd call "a bargain" in the UK ...

 

[Twin Pots]

Yes a bargain in any currency. I don't believe there were any real differences other than mainly cosmetic between US, export and UK bikes, Triumph were far too mean for that and yours is almost certainly Canadian. The US distributors often did their own improvements. Have you checked out the engine frame numbers? The bike maybe 68 but the engine could just be an earlier race engine running 11.5 compression. Without high octane fuel it would run a little oddly. Not sure how any 68 Triumph engine could blow your socks off with or without extensive tuning given my stock FJR Yamaha kicks out 140 bhp plus and my 67 Bonni produces a more humble 40 -50 bhp depending on who you believe. Fun but not fast by modern standards. Still, very jealous of such a bargain buy. The adjustable chain oiler was standard, check out the parts book and mine has it, and yes by contacting and paying the VMCC they will issue a certificate of engine and bike assembly date and shipping date /destination. My certificate shows my bike was built Sept 66 and shipped to Johnsons Distributors in the States and first registered in 67. Although built in 66 my bike corresponds to the 1967 Triumph parts catalogue so was a 1967 model bike. It can be confusing as Triumph would print specific parts books to suit Distributors including mistakes. That's why we love Triumph, always something new to learn and discover!!

 

[marktraylor]

My 1968 650 T120R TR6 is a European model. The brake and shifter are on reverse sides as well.

 

[CarlS]

My 1968 650 T120R TR6 is a European model. The brake and shifter are on reverse sides as well.

My '68 TR6R is an American model and the brake and shifter are reversed. This was common, even on some US made bikes, until the US government mandated the shifter on the left and brake pedal on the right - at HD's urging.

 

[Rudie]

My 1968 650 T120R TR6 is a European model. The brake and shifter are on reverse sides as well.

My '68 TR6R is an American model and the brake and shifter are reversed. This was common, even on some US made bikes,

As standard, all 1968 Triumphs had the rear brake pedal and gear shift lever on the same sides whatever market they went to. Gear shift lever on the timing side aka right-looking-forward, rear brake pedal on the drive side aka left-looking-forward.

If you have a 1968 Triumph with rear brake pedal on the timing side and gear lever on the drive side ("reversed"), it is very, very rare; the required linkages were either home-made or an aftermarket kit.

Gear lever on the right-looking-forward (and therefore rear brake pedal on the other side of the bike) is a consequence of Triumph - like most motorcycle manufacturers - starting out assembling off-the-shelf components. Gearbox makers like Sturmey-Archer (logically?) put the change mechanism on the opposite side of the gearbox from the drive, Triumph chose to put the primary drive on the left-looking-forward, so the gearchange was on the opposite side.

When motorcycle makers like Triumph designed and made their own gearboxes, gear lever on the drive side would've either required required the shaft to pass through the primary drive casing or major changes to many other major components to move the 'drive side' to the right-looking-forward.

So the change never happened until required by the 1975 FMVSS, on the T160 and 1976 750 twins (1975 twins didn't comply with the 1975 FMVSS so were not exported to the US).

until the US government mandated the shifter on the left and brake pedal on the right - at HD's urging.

Not to mention the vast majority of the far more common Japanese bikes had had rear brake pedal on the timing side and gear shift lever on the drive side for years before ...

 

[CarlS]

Not to mention the vast majority of the far more common Japanese bikes had had rear brake pedal on the timing side and gear shift lever on the drive side for years before ...

Spot on. It was HD's attempt to eliminate or reduce competition from the Brit bikes and the Japanese bikes. Indian was already not a threat to Harley.

 

[Twin Pots]

Makes me giggle to hear the right side gear change described as reverse. To me its US bikes that are reversed. The only real difference between European and US bikes were the minor mods such as the petrol tank or small changes made by the US importers. Once Triumph changed the gear shift over all their production changed over. We all know Triumph hated spending money by having too many variations.
This has proven to be a blessing now for those of us having to source parts for these bikes, hardly anything ever changed! It's only odd times I embarrass myself in group rides when riding my FJR 1300 and stall at the lights pressing the wrong pedal.

 

[CarlS]

It's only odd times I embarrass myself in group rides when riding my FJR 1300 and stall at the lights pressing the wrong pedal.

I don't have much troubler going from left hand shift to right hand shift. I have more trouble going from right hand shift to left hand shift. But I grew up riding right hand shift.

 

[Twin Pots]

Exactly. I only ever get if fuddled when riding the Yamaha with left shift, I never seem to get it wrong riding my Triumph with right shift. Must be long term memory. Being from the UK all my early years were spent riding with the gear shift on the correct side, it must be hard to forget. All the HD riders will now be up in arms that left is best. I know you have all read the Triumph book where the writer mentions a brand new customer bike coming in for repairs with all the controls reversed. Clutch on the right, throttle on the left and how nobody at Triumph could test ride it without crashing. All good fun and keeps the brain active.
Over 6,000 kms now with no plug oiling for those that know what I am talking about from my earlier post
and all by just changing to new needles and needle jets in my concentrics.

 

[Twin Pots]

Exactly. I only ever get if fuddled when riding the Yamaha with left shift, I never seem to get it wrong riding my Triumph with right shift. Must be long term memory. Being from the UK all my early years were spent riding with the gear shift on the correct side, it must be hard to forget. All the HD riders will now be up in arms that left is best. I know you have all read the Triumph book where the writer mentions a brand new customer bike coming in for repairs with all the controls reversed. Clutch on the right, throttle on the left and how nobody at Triumph could test ride it without crashing. All good fun and keeps the brain active.
Over 6,000 kms now with no plug oiling for those that know what I am talking about from my earlier post
and all by just changing to new needles and needle jets in my concentrics.

Thanks Carl, nice to know someone reads by posts.

 

[Rocky]

As you can see by my signature, I ride both vintage and modern bikes so it takes a bit of concentration as I switch back and forth