Harley Davidson's Future?

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CarlS

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On other motorcycle forums, there is a lot of discussion on HD's future. Will they survive? If they do, in what form? Will they be bought by someone? Are the troubles facing Harley indicative of the whole motorcycle industry? What about metric cruisers? What are the implications for Triumph's Speedmaster, America, and the new Thunderbird?

Here is an interesting article on HD. It is worth reading even if you are not an HD fan.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/StockInvestingTrading/is-harley-davidson-over-the-hill.aspx

Here is my take - and I certainly do not claim to be an expert. HD has very successfully marketed the HD lifestyle. The baby boomers bought into it and HD's sales soared. Then several things happend to change the landscape.

Firstly, the economy in the US and in the industrial nations tanked. For most people motorcycles are not a necessity; they are a luxury. This is especially true for HD whose bikes are high end market for the most part. Motorcycle sales are down world wide, but not anything like automobile sales. I have read that Subaru is the only automobile manufacturer that showed a profit last year - and it was certainly not a strong profit.

Secondly, the baby boomers are aging. They have bought their HD's (and metric cruisers) and now some of them are beginning to give up riding due to health and physical issues. They have been the mainstay of HD sales and that market is diminishing. I believe this will also affect the sales of metric cruisers.

Thirdly, HD has nothing in their lineup with the exception of Buell to appeal to a younger market. The younger market is attracted to sport bikes, street fighters, etc. Triumph is in a good position here. And younger riders seem to be liking Triumphs classic line, too. Like Triumph, the Japanese manufacturers are better positioned than HD with bikes that appeal to younger riders - and less expensive than HD.

Fourthly, HD has relied on brand loyalty (part of the HD lifestyle). Though motorcycle riders in general are more brand loyal than most consumers of other products, the younger riders are less so. The HD lifestyle has not appealed to them and their brand loyalty is to other manufacturers. In short, HD is not the motorcycle icon to the younger generations of riders.

How will all of this play out for HD and the motorcycle industry? If I know that, I would become a multi millionaire! My opinion is that there will be a continuing market for cruisers as current younger riders age. Sport bikes are not comfortable and not pillion friendly. Sport bike riders will turn to touring bikes, dual purpose bikes, standard bikes and cruisers as they get older. I think the market for cruisers will diminish some; but I think it will remain a viable market.

HD can survive, They will have to restructure and revamp the lineup. They will have to introduce new models that appeal to younger riders and change their marketing strategy. They have taken a step in this direction with their marketing to female riders.

Triumph could and should do likewise marketing the Speedmaster, America and Bonneville SE to women. These bikes have lower seat height and are easy to handle. The Bonneville SE would make a good entry level bike. It has a lower seat height and lower suspension than the Bonneville and the T100. Triumph should consider a Tiger Cub with a lower seat height. The Tiger is too tall for a lot of males.

If the economy quits dropping and begins recovery next year, I think the T-bird will be a success. And I hope it will just as I hope HD survives.

Just my rambling thoughts.
 
Three HD dealers here in NorCal are closing and many more are on the brink. The motorcycle industry will suffer greatly from the world wide economic downturn. This springs sales will reveal where the industry is heading. Oh well if HD goes under my 2007 will be worth a lot more.
 
In the last few years at HD's insistence, dealers have built palatial show rooms on prime real estate. They have tremendous overheads and are heavily mortgaged with little or no equity. And for the market, some areas are over saturated. I hate to see folks lose their jobs; but the strong dealerships will survive. I know of three Triumph dealerships that have closed - one in Florida.
 
I think there will always be some customer base for them. How small it will get i dunno. But i suppose the question is can HD downsize in order to survive. One thing is for sure....they will have to consider the kind of profit margins companies like triumph have and tell the HD fat cats they will have to live with 2 Ferrari instead of 6. I think they will also likely start taking quality shortcuts. But you're right....the market for cruisers will certainly die out as the customer base dies out ! There are always going to be some tho. As an example, in the guitar market, vintage stratocasters which came about in the 50's are more popular today than ever because they have something that people love, even tho many of them were not of that generation. the question is, does HD have something like that? i think they do. Not my cup of tea by a mile. But while a lot of HD people are posers who buy them because it's the thing to do, there are also many who find something about them they cannot get elsewhere, even triumph. it has something to so with the overall vibe of those bikes, not how well they handle or run. And there will always be those who will have that need
 
DaleI think you peg it very well here. It is always sad to see a dealer go under. I wonder what impact the Tbird will also have on Harley. If this goes the way the want it it may just be another nail in Harley that may make them try and cut costs even more to maintain the customer base
 
The MOCO forced dealers to meet requirements for size of and location of the dealerships. Many shops expanded, purchased or leased new buildings. These are the shops that are in the most danger of failure.
 
Dave, i doubt the Tbird will even make the slightest difference. harley people are Harley people. They don't buy anything else unless they are the rare few who have more than one bike and brand. But they will never let a triumph stop them from riding a harley. Thats a good thing as far as i'm concerned because the last thing i want is a bike where i see the exact thing coming down the street 100 times a day. I like having unique things. Hard to take pride in something when everyone else has the same thing.
 
[quote author=dazco link=topic=4947.msg28603#msg28603 date=1238778586]...harley people are Harley people. They don't buy anything else unless they are the rare few who have more than one bike and brand. But they will never let a triumph stop them from riding a harley. ...
[/quote]

Not quite true. My 1st bike was a HD, 2nd was a Bonnie. Many years later, it was HDs again (a Sporty then a Low Rider). Much as I loved both bikes, I still hankered for a Triumph. Last Sept., decided to trade in the HD for one. Couldn't decide between a Classic (looks like my 1st one, nostalgia) or a America. However, wife had a vote this time, and liked the ride position of the America better (along with the 2 tone blue paint).

So this HD rider (and lover) is on a Triumph and loving it. Not regrets at all about the bike. What I do miss is the sense of belonging to something when you own a HD, even if one doesn't belong to H.O.G. The dealers are single brand, and when you walk in to one, no matter where, you feel a part of something. Even when you tend to be more of a lone wolf rider, as I am. And every HD rider/owner is into the cruiser style, as all HD models are basically based on it.

Not so with Triumph. All the dealers I've been to or heard about are multi brand dealers, so walking into one is more like going into a department store. And the RAT group is multi style, so there is less affinity between riders. My local RAT pack is basically all street bike riders. I believe I'm the only America/Speedmaster to belong. Since I have basically no interest in those style bikes, the Pack doesn't give me a sense of belonging.

I'm sure I'm not the only ex-HD rider now on a Triumph, and there may be more now that there will be a Triumph with a comparable engine size.

Jim F
 
We have one totally Triumph dealer this side and I know what you mean. When I walk into that dealer it is a totally different feeling than the other multi brand ones. My local dealer sort of has Triumph on the side and they are all squashed into one corner at the back of the shop. We don't have a RAT pack here either. Then like you I have always been more of a lone rider all the years never really riding for any group
 
I don't have that feeling. When I walk into a shop of any brand, I feel I am in the world of two wheels. I appreciate most anything on two or three wheels. I am not a sports bike guy and I don't feel "at home" in sports bike oriented shop and I don't feel "at home" in a cruiser oriented shop since I am not a cruiser guy. But I am not uncomfortable by any means. I belong to the world of two wheels and am quite comfortable with riders of any brand. I have always deliberately avoided the HD lifestyle, even when I rode an HD. That cult thing is not my thing.
 
I didn't say every HD owner was like that. But you cannot discuss things like this w/o generalizing or we'd have to consider the entire human race killers because one out of 1000 kill at some point. And generally, at least in my part of the woods, thats the way they are. I see very few that have anything but harleys or want anything but, even if they profess to liking something else. In fact i know 3 HD guys personally two of which own more than one HD (one owns four) and have seen the thunderbird (via my emails) and while they think it's great, they wouldn't buy one. In fact, the guy with 4 HD's is looking to buy another and when i asked him why not the Tbird his answer in so many words i'm a harley guy.So while they are exceptions, here in los angeles california the vast majority of harley guys ride only harleys. And one of my HD friends explained it to me this way....again, in so many words, he said they have a certain image of themselves which is both the reason they chose harley in the 1st place and the reason thats all they'll ride. Most of them wouldn't admit that, but he's a close friend and will open up to me about that. In other words, to jump on a triumph now and then would be sort of demeaning to them in a way. A step down from thier image of themselves as a dedicated HD man and a really cool dude. :ya2:

In any case, that of course is not EVERY harley guy. But i do see it a lot and i rarely see that same thing with other brands. By the way, the notion that for the most part HD owners will not buy the Tbird isn't just my view....i have seen it said many times since the Tbird was finally announced. I couldn't imagine any new bike by any manufacturer putting a notable dent in harley's sales. The only thing that can and has been doing that is the economy, and thats probably because they're so friggin expensive.
 
[quote author=DaveM link=topic=4947.msg28708#msg28708 date=1239003179]
Sort of make it stand out a bit
[/quote]Just a rumor I read but It might be that you wear PINK chaps/pants and boots that makes you stand out a bit ,not necessorlary your Speedmaster :y114: This is just an observation so I could be wrong. :ya2:
 
[quote author=dazco link=topic=4947.msg28942#msg28942 date=1239286428]
By the way, the notion that for the most part HD owners will not buy the Tbird isn't just my view....i have seen it said many times since the Tbird was finally announced. I couldn't imagine any new bike by any manufacturer putting a notable dent in harley's sales. The only thing that can and has been doing that is the economy, and thats probably because they're so friggin expensive.
[/quote] I don't know how accurate it is ,but reading another Triumph forum ,It was mentioned that Triumph produces around 50,000 units a year. Harley will end up around 270,000 units this year (there best year was 330,000) so how many TB's do you think Triumph will try producing for the last six months of this year? 2,500 to 3,000? What I'm getting at is even with 3,000 units I still don't think there going to make much of a dent in Harley sales. victory was producing around 7,500 units a year and they didn't make much if any ,a dent in Harley sales. However the new TB is a much better designed bike than the Vic. Performance wise too. I'm sure they'll get a few Harley converts but it won't be that many. I think the TB will appeal to someone like me thats wanting a big twin cruiser that's not a Harley knockoff like the Japanese have been doing for the last decade. Along with some of you Speedie guys truimph should do just fine with the TB in the future. I'm sure they'll sale more in the US as the economy starts improving in the coming years (hope it's months instead of years though)
 
[quote author=DaveM link=topic=4947.msg28931#msg28931 date=1239284078]
My local dealer sort of has Triumph on the side and they are all squashed into one corner at the back of the shop.
[/quote] Thats the type dealer I've been in also when it comes to Triumph. They had a coupl eoof rockets ,one america and a couple of triumph sportbikes(don't know all the triumph models yet) and a whole lot of Bmw's of all sizes and colors along with any acessories (80% bmw parts to 20% triumph) they definitely cater to the bmw crowd at these dealers. But then it may have to do with volume of bike sales ?
 
[quote author=arkyrider link=topic=4947.msg28950#msg28950 date=1239291651]
... But then it may have to do with volume of bike sales ?
[/quote]

Oh, definitely. In most cases, unless it had a excellent parts, accessories and service business to pay the bills, a single brand Triumph dealer would starve. I'm not faulting them, just noting the difference with HD dealers.
 
I know no one is going to believe this after my last posts, but i swear to God this is true. i went to lunch with one of those HD guys i mentioned, and i swear to you, without mentioning the topic i've been discussing here he said exactly what i was saying ! He saw a old honda shadow like he had before he became a HD guy and we began talking about them. W/o any provocation he said, and i'm paraphrasing, "you know, if i were to buy a different brand of bike it would definatly be a triumph. But i'm a harley guy and that won't ever happen". I told you you'd think i'm BS'ing ! But i swear, this just happened no more than 20 minutes ago as we arrioved back at work from lunch. And funny thing is, of the 3 HD guys i know well, he's the only one i would have though might be able to go there, but apparently not. Again, i swear this is true, but i can see how no one would believe it after this thread. I started laughing like he|| when he said that !
 
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