Dunstall Replicas - 1971 OIF T120R

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NM Bonny

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
So, I've got a pair of OEM mufflers on my bike that are still in decent shape. However, since I've gone to the trouble of stripping and repainting the tank and fenders, and will polish the engine side covers and brake plates/scoop, I'll likely end up replacing the pipes and mufflers because the handful of small dings and scratches now look magnified next to the flawless bodywork and paint.

I like the '71 megaphone style as opposed to earlier Meriden sausages or the BSA Rocket style (though both look fine on a Triumph of my vintage). But I have a few questions for folks who have actually fitted Dunstall replica, megaphone-style mufflers:

First - I have three choices--two of which are readily available in the U.S. (see pics), and all of which have removable baffles for repacking. The first is EMGO's version; the second brand has a 'red cap' outlet that is otherwise identical to the EMGO's, but has seamless construction and is available for just a little more money; the third has a similar but slightly difference outlet and a small outward flare like the bell of a trumpet, but as I've said don't appear available on this side of the Pond.

Question: Has anyone handled the EMGO or 'red cap' mufflers in the flesh? Aside from the seamless finish on the 'red cap' brand, which is pretty sexy, is the steel or handiwork superior on either one?


Second - I found a website (that I forgot to bookmark and can't find) which showed the 'red cap' brand disassembled. One photo showed that the perforated tube had a perforated disc tack-welded in place midway along the bore.

Question: Does anyone know whether the EMGO version also has this center disc?

Frankly, I'd be inclined to knock it out, as generally with a glass-wrapped perforated tube, you do NOT want all or most of the gasses forced outward through the holes and into the packing, around the disc, and then back inward again into the central bore. That is a method Harley used in its '60s-era Sportster mufflers--but they did not have glass packing so operated much like an auto muffler. In a glass pack muffler that already has a multi-hole diffuser/restrictor at the outlet, I think the perforated disc midway along the central tube would be too much restriction, and if I want an internal baffling style that redirects flow within the muffler body, I'll stick with OEM mufflers (which I can still get new).


Third - has anyone experimented with the jetting in stock Amal carbs with this style of muffler?


Fourth - I have read people's reviews who claim superior performance out of the EMGOs, and sound not obnoxiously louder than stock if one pulls the baffles and installs sufficient good-quality packing.

Question: Does anyone have a video with audio of either of these internally very similar) mufflers fitted to a Unit 650? What about performance vs. stock?

Thanks!
 

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I've got Dunstalls. Has the perforated disc. No issues I've noticed. Possibly you're being a bit hypothetical. They were designed by exhaust engineers.

They are too loud in any case, wouldn't want the disc gone. Sound good, but gets tiring on a ride, and a bit asocial.

Look better than peashooters, I think, the usual replacements.

IMG_20230830_132848~2.jpg



Here's what they sound like ...


View: https://youtu.be/_FbnmoQMDsw?feature=shared


Better than peashooters in this department too
 
I've got Dunstalls. Has the perforated disc. No issues I've noticed. Possibly you're being a bit hypothetical. They were designed by exhaust engineers.

They are too loud in any case, wouldn't want the disc gone. Sound good, but gets tiring on a ride, and a bit asocial.

Look better than peashooters, I think, the usual replacements.

View attachment 55741


Here's what they sound like ...


View: https://youtu.be/_FbnmoQMDsw?feature=shared


Better than peashooters in this department too


Solomon: Have you re-wrapped the baffle pipes, or is that with the minimal, lower-quality fiberglass that comes inside of them? That is a pretty sexy sound but I agree, really a bit loud for a longer ride--and this bike was bought for touring New Mexico's mountain two-lane blacktop roads. So, I wonder if a thorough re-wrap with high quality glass would quieten them down significantly...?

At any rate, this video is really helpful as it will allow me to compare my stock mufflers to what appears to be the best option--so thank you for taking the time. I love the way these look far better than pea shooters. Really nice lines.

Lovely bike all the way around, by the way. I plan to fit aluminum rims as well. May I ask where you got the chrome foot pegs?
 
Solomon: Have you re-wrapped the baffle pipes, or is that with the minimal, lower-quality fiberglass that comes inside of them? That is a pretty sexy sound but I agree, really a bit loud for a longer ride--and this bike was bought for touring New Mexico's mountain two-lane blacktop roads. So, I wonder if a thorough re-wrap with high quality glass would quieten them down significantly...?

At any rate, this video is really helpful as it will allow me to compare my stock mufflers to what appears to be the best option--so thank you for taking the time. I love the way these look far better than pea shooters. Really nice lines.

Lovely bike all the way around, by the way. I plan to fit aluminum rims as well. May I ask where you got the chrome foot pegs?
I got the Dunstalls second hand. Think all the wrap has been blown out. Can't get the ends off. Maybe I'll try again!

Sound much louder than playing back on mobile phone!

Chrome pegs off eBay. I look every day for 'oddities'. Most things eventually turn up. Can't feel vibrations through the pegs with boots, and far, far better gear shifting than with the standard fat rubber rests.

I'll record the Dunstalls from behind from you at idle. The ground shakes a bit!

The Dunstalls were standard on my 1972 T120V too. As you say, beautiful sweep back to them. My engine is now 750 though.
 
I got the Dunstalls second hand. Think all the wrap has been blown out. Can't get the ends off. Maybe I'll try again!

Sound much louder than playing back on mobile phone!

Chrome pegs off eBay. I look every day for 'oddities'. Most things eventually turn up. Can't feel vibrations through the pegs with boots, and far, far better gear shifting than with the standard fat rubber rests.

I'll record the Dunstalls from behind from you at idle. The ground shakes a bit!

The Dunstalls were standard on my 1972 T120V too. My engine is now 750 though.

Okay, great - and thanks again for the effort. I really do like the lines of these mufflers, and the elimination of the first seam toward the forward end on the OEM mufflers is nice. Also, the price for EMGOs is much cheaper than a set of new OEM mufflers. Plenty of money left over for a good rewrap of the baffles!
 
Solomon:

P.S. - here is the work-in-progress.

I've done the bodywork (a dozen dents in tank, rippled rear fender) and paint (1966 GM color, 'mist blue metallic' custom mixed, as it's no longer available), working on hand-formed aluminum side covers with polished/matching paint scheme and pressed recesses for the Bonneville script--not sure whether block lettering or earlier cursive script. Redid the wiring, Norton-style rear LED taillamp, drop-in LED BPF headlamp bulb from UK (works amazingly well), three-phase Lucas alternator with Honda rectifier, threaded OEM control wires through the handlebars, which are low-rise spec.

Need to polish engine covers and decide whether to keep (and polish) front brake w/scoop, or build aluminum wheel with Sportster aluminum hub and 11" disc, and CNC-machined adapter to fit Wilwood aluminum caliper to existing R/H fork leg. I'd keep the rear stock brake with new aluminum rim, as you have done...
 

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Here the exhausts from behind. It's in stereo, so use headphones!


View: https://youtu.be/tgY-JTCoPDM?feature=shared


I made the rubber plate-cover for the vid. Forgot to take it off before riding home! Then stalled bike on outside lane of three land traffic, just to daraw attention to myself. Had already been stopped by three police cars and a helicopter on the way out.
 
Here the exhausts from behind. It's in stereo, so use headphones!


View: https://youtu.be/tgY-JTCoPDM?feature=shared


I made the rubber plate-cover for the vid. Forgot to take it off before riding home! Then stalled bike on outside lane of three land traffic, just to daraw attention to myself. Had already been stopped by three police cars and a helicopter on the way out.


Well, that's awfully sexy sounding, I must admit--and they look grand! The quality of the exhaust note is different from ordinary straight-throughs, like the earlier bikes have, and I find it mesmerizing.

When I get this bike running, which I hope will be later this year, I will post a video on this thread so we can compare the OEM mufflers to the Dunstall replicas, re: both decibel level and quality of sound. On the off-chance that you repack the mufflers with ample, high-quality stuff, please post again.

Thanks, too, for the closeups of other parts of the bike. Should I find the TLS front brake seriously lacking, I may opt for front sliders, hub, and disc brake from your vintage. I'd hope they'd be available on eBay. Or I could roll my own DIY setup using a 2000 Sportster hub, a Wildwood caliper, and CNC-machined adapter to attach it to the existing R/H slider ear that grabs the backing plate/air scoop. That would allow me to fit an 11.5" rotor I've got hanging from the wall...
 

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I like the '71 megaphone style as opposed to earlier Meriden sausages or the BSA Rocket
How about this here style of megaphone? They look Dunstall-esque but are OEM Meriden. There is a bit of a trick to getting these, however.
 

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Thanks, too, for the closeups of other parts of the bike. Should I find the TLS front brake seriously lacking, I may opt for front sliders, hub, and disc brake from your vintage. I'd hope they'd be available on eBay. Or I could roll my own DIY setup using a 2000 Sportster hub, a Wildwood caliper, and CNC-machined adapter to attach it to the existing R/H slider ear that grabs the backing plate/air scoop. That would allow me to fit an 11.5" rotor I've got hanging from the wall
Mine is '72. Would have also had front drum. Had a replacement fork slider and disc brake fitted. Plenty powerful enough with ebc ee pads, will lock wheel on a dry road.
Drum looks much nicer of course.
My bike is now effectively a '73 T140V.
 
Mine is '72. Would have also had front drum. Had a replacement fork slider and disc brake fitted. Plenty powerful enough with ebc ee pads, will lock wheel on a dry road.
Drum looks much nicer of course.
My bike is now effectively a '73 T140V.

Ah, so it is indeed that simple--thanks. Well, I do like the way the scoop looks on the OEM drum brake. However, I had the Japanese clone of this bike, a '71 Yamaha XS1B, back in 1979, and recall frightening the bejesus out of myself with the similarly designed TLS ventilated front brake. It was good for one or two good, hard applications, then faded away.

What I may do is try it out 'as is' when I get the bike running, install the longer arms I've got, and if I can't live with it revisit my options (and start a new thread). The two-lane blacktop up from the Rio Grande to where I live in the foothills of the Sandia Mountains passes through a twisty canyon where wild Mustangs, deer, and coyotes regularly dart across the road. So, one has to have competent brakes. That's why I did the DIY front disc conversion on the '51 FL 'pan-shovel' shown here (and whose frame is otherwise stock).
 

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Ah, so it is indeed that simple--thanks
No, sorry! Need t140 fork yokes. A t140 wheel. So, basically a t140 front end. If you have that Harley front end might be the way to go?

There are many forum posts where people have got the front drum working well. New pads, adjusting.

My bike came with the disc front end. Terrible braking, frightening. One day totally failed. After I serviced the near-seized calipers, fitted the EBC EE pads, it now works.
 
No, sorry! Need t140 fork yokes. A t140 wheel. So, basically a t140 front end. If you have that Harley front end might be the way to go?

There are many forum posts where people have got the front drum working well. New pads, adjusting.

My bike came with the disc front end. Terrible braking, frightening. One day totally failed. After I serviced the near-seized calipers, fitted the EBC EE pads, it now works.

Oh, okay, I see--thank you again.

Well, what I was going to do is either fit an entire 2000 Sportster front end I've got lying about (with aluminum triple clamps and narrower tubes, both narrower and lighter than the hybrid 'wide glide' front end on the Hog in the photo), but which I'd rather not do, or use a 2000 Sportster aluminum hub with the 11.5" rotor pictured in the earlier post, laced to a Borrani 19" shouldered aluminum rim (also fitting a matching 18" aluminum rim to the existing rear conical hub). The latter, preferred route would retain the existing OEM Triumph triple clamps, tubes, and sliders--and I'd simply design and machine a 6062-T6 aluminum adapter to fit a Wilwood aluminum caliper to the R/H slider.

Yes, thank you - I've read numerous threads on various measures to optimize the existing conical drum brake--including adding a hydraulic 'pull' slave cylinder externally, which I've considered but at that point would just opt for a disc.

I guess that I need to refresh my memory of just how inadequate this sort of brake is before I decide--I really do like the way the thing looks. Maybe optimized and with engine braking, it'll be okay, and this bike weighs w-a-y less than the Hog, which I can't even push up the apron into the garage--unlike the Bonny, which comparatively speaking is like wheeling around a bicycle!

But aesthetically, the DIY method using the Sporty hub and Performance Machine rotor shown earlier would be pretty cool...
 
P.S. - I'm starting a new thread on restoring & modifying this bike in this same area of the website, because I've started to depart sufficiently from the discrete purpose of this thread--which I will, however, complete so that people considering Dunstall replicas can make use of the information gathered.
 
Looks like they have four exit holes... are they baffled mufflers, as with my '71 Meridian OEM jobs, as opposed to glass packs? How do they sound?
These are original silencers (71-4159) that came stock on my '78 Bonny. These came stock on many year models. They are often referred to as "cigar" silencers which are awfully quiet, and visually way too long, but have a very nice tone. I believe they are baffled because the tone has never changed.

Here is how I arrived with these "megaphone" mufflers: I cut the tapered end off the stock muffler right behind the weld (because one of them became irreparably damaged) and in doing so I discovered those four exit holes/short tubes that look like they were designed to look that way, and, nothing fell out of or became loose from the muffler as a result of the cut, so I grudgingly did the same to the other one. It was a daring operation. I did this way back in the mid eighties when spare parts were practically none existent and there was no internet to find replacements. The operation caused the mufflers to have a bit more robust sound but not loud at all (unlike peashooters or Dunstalls), yet the tone and performance was slightly improved over stock originals so I have kept them on the bike all these years. I have yet to see any others like them and (in my opinion) they look cool as all get out. I wonder if the import versions are true to the originals in construction because they are much less expensive than English made ones if one were to take a gamble and cut on them. I have since added English-made peashooters for Triumph and another set of stock originals to my collection so I have several nice options for tone and looks.
 
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My old pre-unit Tbird has original Dunstalls fitted but the bike has not been on the road for many a year. However I can confirm that they did originally have said perforated discs but a bit of judicious prodding had those out without any collateral damage.

With regard to the silencers being a tad OTT regarding decibels when out and about, you are obviously not riding fast enough LOL.

The cans on my Ducati SS work on the same principle, perforated tube wrapped in a fine SS mesh around which the wadding is wrapped. With these big twins the wadding takes such a battering that it’s not long before the exhaust gasses find their way to the carbon fibre sleeve which then discolours. On my 3rd repack which also entailed wet & dry sanding of the sleeve to remove the discolouration I’d had enough of this ritual so I purchased a length of 60mm ID SS tube to slide over the perforated tube and it’s SS wrap, profiled the ends to mate with the caps at each end of the cans and sealed the join with silicone mastic, some of you will call it tub caulk. The sound is amazing, louder than my son’s Panigale 899 with a Termi system on.

What is it they say about loud pipes? Mine, together with the open clutch may even resurrect my ancestors LOL.
 
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