Lost First Gear?

[Twin Pots]

Whilst riding my 67 Bonneville last Wednesday I realized I had lost first gear. I don't mean crunching or difficulty engaging first gear. It simply felt like it wasn't there. Pressing down the gear lever just met with a solid feel. I got home ok as all other gears were fine and there is a neutral between 2nd and 3rd. I was a little depressed this might mean a complete gearbox strip. Not a pleasant thought.
I removed the outer gear cover hoping it was something in that section. One point here before I continue. I did read somewhere that the outer case can be in poor condition inside as it does not contain oil and can be rusty etc. This is certainly not the case with my bike so either this an incorrect statement or it refers to a different gearbox, a pre-unit maybe? Anyway, after removing the cover I discovered that the upper quadrant return spring was actually broken. There are two springs and they are supposed to act equally against each other to always centralise the gear lever after changing gear. As this meant the gear lever internal mechanism wasn't fully centralising it was stopping one of the quadrant plungers from engaging in order to shift into first. If you have worked on these boxes you will know exactly what I mean. If like me you haven't it took a while to work it all out. I am sure I can't be the only 650 unit rider this has happened to and just in case it should happen to you in the future then don't panic as its a relatively easy and cheap fix. Obviously replace both springs at the same time to maintain equal tension and reliability. Have to be impressed with Triumph for the design of these gearboxes. They appear complicated at first but are in fact incredibly simple and normally robust and the broken spring has no doubt being doing its vital function since 1967. All for now until the next maintenance issue.

 

[Greyfell]

...Anyway, after removing the cover I discovered that the upper quadrant return spring was actually broken. There are two springs and they are supposed to act equally against each other to always centralise the gear lever after changing gear. As this meant the gear lever internal mechanism wasn't fully centralising it was stopping one of the quadrant plungers from engaging in order to shift into first. If you have worked on these boxes you will know exactly what I mean. ...Obviously replace both springs at the same time to maintain equal tension and reliability. Have to be impressed with Triumph for the design of these gearboxes. They appear complicated at first but are in fact incredibly simple and normally robust and the broken spring has no doubt being doing its vital function since 1967. All for now until the next maintenance issue.

So, you readily found replacement springs? I find that amazing.

 

[harper6t]

I have had the same issue occur on a pre unit, a simple fix

 

[sikatri]

So, you readily found replacement springs? I find that amazing.

Are springs like these hard to find? I know next to nothing about motorcycle transmissions or the gear selector mechanism.

 

[grandpaul]

Standard replacement part and proper to replace BOTH as stated.

Not VERY typical, but more typical than blown rods through cases which Norton Commandos seem to do with 10 times the frequency of Triumphs & BSAs combined.

 

[ChrisAnglophile]

Standard replacement part and proper to replace BOTH as stated.

Not VERY typical, but more typical than blown rods through cases which Norton Commandos seem to do with 10 times the frequency of Triumphs & BSAs combined.

If Commandos are put together correct, then Rod Through Cases is not an Issue.
Problem was , getting it out the door and into American Showrooms by 1 st April , with high interest rate in England and Inflation , bikes were built 6 months ahead , and Norton had to have all the Combats , rebuilt , at Owners location. over 5000 were fixed this way.
Like I said, dukes nicked the money.
Chris
It grew from a 500cc 36 bhp Iron Head to a 750 and 850 69 bhp Japanese Arse Kicker. It should have been replaced in 1968, but the Lords and Ladies of England Nicked all the money and spent it on Flash Bentley's and Mansions in UK and Australia.

 

[sikatri]

How much disassembly was involved?

 

[Greyfell]

Are springs like these hard to find? I know next to nothing about motorcycle transmissions or the gear selector mechanism.

I don't know, but spare parts for a bike, car or truck from 1967... you can't go to your local Autozone or Oreilly's expecting they will have everything you need.

 

[sikatri]

I don't know, but spare parts for a bike, car or truck from 1967... you can't go to your local Autozone or Oreilly's expecting they will have everything you need.

True. I can’t even get some parts for a 1996 Ford Thunderbird.

 

[Rocky]

I've shopped for parts all over the world via the internet; Canada, USA, England, New Zealand.
It's amazing how many parts are still available, but you have to look for them.

 

[Greyfell]

Fortunately, for classic vehicles, there are specialty parts houses. Like the parts house in Pomona, CA that I used when I had a 1967 Mustang (sadly both now gone).

 

[Rocky]

During the heyday of the British motorcycle industry, parts were sent to dealers all over the world in great numbers.
As the industry failed and dealers went out of business, these stockpiled parts were bought up by other dealers. Many of them sold out to larger dealers resulting in still a fairly large stockpile of parts around the world. There is still an amazing supply in England and the U.S.
NOS is petering out, but there is still a lot to be found. There are also "pattern parts" on the market - some good, some not so good.

 

[Twin Pots]

So, you readily found replacement springs? I find that amazing.

Hi Greyfell, I didn't know they were difficult to find. Australia is normally nowhere near as well served for parts as in the States or the UK (I have bought parts from both in the past) but this time I ordered a pair of springs from an Australian supplier called Trojan who supply via Ebay as they had them in stock. They do a whole range of classic bike parts. I use them when I can simply because I will get the parts in a couple of days. If Trojan haven't got something I usually buy from CBS in the States or some suppliers in the UK. Some of the UK suppliers are great and stock some really obscure parts for British classics unavailable elsewhere. To hopefully answer another concern - should the new springs not be correct (they are supposed to be original Triumph) I can always take the non broken one to a spring maker. Done this in the past and they are usually great at matching the original.
I do miss living in England when it comes to anything engineering. There is nothing that can't be made, matched or repaired by some old boy in a shed somewhere with genuine old fashioned engineering skills. For example, when my brother first chopperised his original Thunderbird that was complete with the dustbin covers he was able to have a whole range of parts hard chromed locally. This chrome lasts forever. Here in Australia hard chromers will only touch the inner fork legs and its actually cheaper just to buy new ones. I know because I just did this when renovating my forks. They simply refuse to hard chrome any other parts which is annoying. Hard chrome as used on hydraulic rams is so rust resistant its brilliant (expensive but long lasting).

 

[Twin Pots]

I don't know, but spare parts for a bike, car or truck from 1967... you can't go to your local Autozone or Oreilly's expecting they will have everything you need.

On this note what I find incredible is in the UK you can buy literally any part for an MGB sports car made 50 years ago because there is such a demand from concourse restorers. Easier to get parts than for a car 10 years old. For example, you can buy the original (copy) LUCAS paper sticker that goes on top of the heater fan casing under the bonnet so your car will be concourse. So many Triumphs were built, and relatively speaking, there are only a few nitwits like us that enjoy keeping them on the road plus there is hopefully enough demand (like MG's) for people to make new copies. And long may it continue at least until all petrol engines are banned and we all drive/ride electric. What a horrible thought. Did I just read Harley have produced an electric bike? Traitors!!

 

[sikatri]

Twin Pots, did you take pics?

 

[triumph david]

I would like to see some pict.'s too, Yes HD did come out with a electric bike,cost a fortune, can't believe they did that!

 

[Twin Pots]

Twin Pots, did you take pics?

I didn't coz not sure if I can attach them. No techi when it comes to this modern stuff. I promise I will take pictures of the before and after as I haven't put the gearbox back together yet and do my best to post them here. I know how much I appreciate it when others post their advice. Saves so much time if someone else has had the same issue and resolved it.
Just in case any of you struggle to find a genuine part for a classic British bike you could try this guy in Australia. He is building up quite a collection of old parts and as someone else said he is one of those buying up parts from other dealers. I bought an original UK 4 gall tank with parcel rack for my US styled 67 Bonneville that has the tiny 2 gall tank. These big tanks seem to be rarer than hens teeth. Anyway if you are struggling he could be worth a try. [email protected] He has a good website with decent photos of stock. www.britcycle.com.au
Like other have said I scour the world when looking for parts.

 

[sikatri]

I didn't coz not sure if I can attach them. No techi when it comes to this modern stuff. I promise I will take pictures of the before and after as I haven't put the gearbox back together yet and do my best to post them here. I know how much I appreciate it when others post their advice. Saves so much time if someone else has had the same issue and resolved it.
Just in case any of you struggle to find a genuine part for a classic British bike you could try this guy in Australia. He is building up quite a collection of old parts and as someone else said he is one of those buying up parts from other dealers. I bought an original UK 4 gall tank with parcel rack for my US styled 67 Bonneville that has the tiny 2 gall tank. These big tanks seem to be rarer than hens teeth. Anyway if you are struggling he could be worth a try. [email protected] He has a good website with decent photos of stock. www.britcycle.com.au
Like other have said I scour the world when looking for parts.

Please do take a few pics, visuals help. I’m curious to see what it all looks like.

 

[Twin Pots]

How much disassembly was involved?

Disassembly. The hardest part is having to remove exhaust system and the plate the footrest attaches too. After that you simply unscrew the bolts holding the outer case on. No need to remove the kickstart or gear lever and actually better if you don't. It then becomes fairly obvious even if you are not that mechanically minded how the gear lever operates the gear index plate hidden inside the gearbox proper. Check out a service manual (like Haynes) or even look at the parts book (free copy on the CBS website).

 

[Twin Pots]

If Commandos are put together correct, then Rod Through Cases is not an Issue.
Problem was , getting it out the door and into American Showrooms by 1 st April , with high interest rate in England and Inflation , bikes were built 6 months ahead , and Norton had to have all the Combats , rebuilt , at Owners location. over 5000 were fixed this way.
Like I said, dukes nicked the money.
Chris
It grew from a 500cc 36 bhp Iron Head to a 750 and 850 69 bhp Japanese Arse Kicker. It should have been replaced in 1968, but the Lords and Ladies of England Nicked all the money and spent it on Flash Bentley's and Mansions in UK and Australia.

That is so true Chris. It was the British disease back then. Greedy factory owners replaced by greedy unions.
It was a no win situation for all the great British names back then. Although not a Norton fanatic (other than I would love a Commando) I did read about the Combat engines being a nightmare. The only other issue I heard about is the special engine mountings being touchy. Its why I chose a Triumph again believing they are easier and cheaper to maintain. I would adore a Norton but they seem more complicated and dare I say more fragile. Nothing beats the look of a Commando for sure. Some might spot the embarrassing fact that I seem to be continually posting repair jobs about my supposedly more reliable Triumph!! I have the mistaken belief that I will eventually have everything fixed and reliable. Dream on, this is a Triumph I'm talking about.
Seriously considering buying one of those hydraulic lift tables for my bike. My back is killing me crawling on the floor to do every little job. Left knee not too great either. Dropping subtle hints to the wife with the odd wince and groan thrown in for dramatic emphasis. So far not working as hoped as her response so far has been to get rid of the bike. New tactic needed.