Thunderbird 900 F Caliper Upgrade- Thread Wandered

[dearborn]

Thread wandered off-subject on this. Originally was on 900 Thunderbird front caliper swap/upgrade, but de-volved to discussion on twins. Swap involved using 3 pot NISSIN L/F caliper from apparently UK only, Honda CB1000R with ABS. This model was not sold in USA and those calipers are EXTREMELY hard to find in UK and $$$$$!!!. There is an extensive listing/part number for a mounting bracket from various Honda models on thread here, but not the caliper. Does anyone have that cross-reference caliper info? Will also likely need a floating disc, too, but those can be found aftermarket. The OEM Triumph NISSIN 2 pot front brake caliper fitted to the Thunderbird 900 is OK if a braided stainless line and better pads are used, but better braking is always a good thing!

 

[dearborn]

Thread wandered off-subject on this. Originally was on 900 Thunderbird front caliper swap/upgrade, but de-volved to discussion on twins. Swap involved using 3 pot NISSIN L/F caliper from apparently UK only, Honda CB1000R with ABS. This model was not sold in USA and those calipers are EXTREMELY hard to find in UK and $$$$$!!!. There is an extensive listing/part number for a mounting bracket from various Honda models on thread here, but not the caliper. Does anyone have that cross-reference caliper info? Will also likely need a floating disc, too, but those can be found aftermarket. The OEM Triumph NISSIN 2 pot front brake caliper fitted to the Thunderbird 900 is OK if a braided stainless line and better pads are used, but better braking is always a good thing!

All I can find are 2 piston calipers

 

[dearborn]

All I can find are 2 piston calipers

Or "TOKICO" which mount very differently.

 

[atomsplitter]

You're dealing with a single disk brake correct? If so the number of pistons is relative, the pads can be squeezed until the disk locks with one piston or six pistons. The question I would surmise is what gives better feel and modulation of braking force, not what caliper is better. For that it's likely better to find a better master cylinder than a better caliper so the caliper you have provides the best braking.

 

[dearborn]

You're dealing with a single disk brake correct? If so the number of pistons is relative, the pads can be squeezed until the disk locks with one piston or six pistons. The question I would surmise is what gives better feel and modulation of braking force, not what caliper is better. For that it's likely better to find a better master cylinder than a better caliper so the caliper you have provides the best braking.

Point taken. A few here, -all seem to be in UK or Germany,- have shown photos using a L/H NISSIN 3 piston caliper from a Euro spec Honda CB1000R with ABS. I would assume that you may be correct that a better master cylinder is also an upgrade, especially since that particular Honda/NISSIN caliper was never sold in USA. If found in Europe, those calipers are big $$$$$! Maybe an OEM Triumph m/c from, say, a twin disc model? Anyone have input on this? (I have swapped to a braided stainless hose and better pads- much better, but could always use better brakes!)

 

[atomsplitter]

You might contact Brembo and see what they have available for your application. I have the 4 piston Brembo's on my Thruxton R and Speed Triple RS and it's an excellent system. Son-in-law rides a 2010 Speed Triple with Nissin calipers and he says my Brembos are far superior. You can also investigate swapping out the front end to go twin disk, but that's a lot more expense than just upgrading the caliper/master cylinder.

Speed Triple:

Thructon R:

 

[B25bsaboy]

Thread wandered off-subject on this. Originally was on 900 Thunderbird front caliper swap/upgrade, but de-volved to discussion on twins. Swap involved using 3 pot NISSIN L/F caliper from apparently UK only, Honda CB1000R with ABS. This model was not sold in USA and those calipers are EXTREMELY hard to find in UK and $$$$$!!!. There is an extensive listing/part number for a mounting bracket from various Honda models on thread here, but not the caliper. Does anyone have that cross-reference caliper info? Will also likely need a floating disc, too, but those can be found aftermarket. The OEM Triumph NISSIN 2 pot front brake caliper fitted to the Thunderbird 900 is OK if a braided stainless line and better pads are used, but better braking is always a good thing!

Dearborn, This has been an issue with me for the last number of TBirds 900 I have had. Braking. Especially on the front has always been an issue.Knew about the three (3) Piston Nissan L/F for awhile and found a supply out of Italy. Attached what I received back in February and yes it’s expensive, but the question is, what is your life worth if you can’t stop. I have yet to install, and will post some photos as progress. Will also gather the info as to where to order it.

 

[B25bsaboy]

Thread wandered off-subject on this. Originally was on 900 Thunderbird front caliper swap/upgrade, but de-volved to discussion on twins. Swap involved using 3 pot NISSIN L/F caliper from apparently UK only, Honda CB1000R with ABS. This model was not sold in USA and those calipers are EXTREMELY hard to find in UK and $$$$$!!!. There is an extensive listing/part number for a mounting bracket from various Honda models on thread here, but not the caliper. Does anyone have that cross-reference caliper info? Will also likely need a floating disc, too, but those can be found aftermarket. The OEM Triumph NISSIN 2 pot front brake caliper fitted to the Thunderbird 900 is OK if a braided stainless line and better pads are used, but better braking is always a good thing!

Contact information regarding the three (3) piston Nissan caliper. This is a screen shot of the other thread I belong to on Facebook.

 

[f r o s t y]

Back in the days, when some friends and I had t.birds 900, we used to have Beringer, 4 or 6 calipers. Good breaking improvement

 

[Mad On Triumphs]

Back in the days, when some friends and I had t.birds 900, we used to have Beringer, 4 or 6 calipers. Good breaking improvement

OK, If I'm reading this correct, and if you're still in the market for an upgrade to your Thunderbird brakes, I can highly recommend these. I put steel braided hose's on them too. I can only describe the braking now, as like hitting a brick wall, ( not that I've ever done that ), but you get the picture. They're a UK company. I bought these in 1999, and they are brilliant. You don't have to change anything at all, you can keep your original master cylinder, as they are manufactured to the original master cylinder. No disc change needed too.
I just had mine refurbished after 24 years. Anyway here are a few pictures, along with the all important website. The only downside, would be the import dueties to the States, but believe me, they're worth it.

https://www.billet.co.uk/index2.html?home.html~mainFrame

 

[f r o s t y]

Great! The Beringer calipers we used to install, they improved the braking, yes, but not that much.

 

[ghiromax]

Hi, I still didn't run the bike with the mod (I implemented many other mods and still have to reassemble everything... ) so I can't offer an objective review, but I installed the 3-pistons Nissin caliper. I have to admit I invested a decent amount of time and found out that on some Honda scooters is installed exactly the caliper we need ... the bracket (mounting flange) though is different and the proper one cost me more than the caliper itself (50 EUR for the brand new caliper and about 70 EUR for the bracket). By the way, the SH caliper has a surface of the pistons that seems to theoretically match better the stock master cylinder than other rares version if the caliper. For my own purpose, I summarized the information collected from other forums and from my searches on the net in an Excel file which you will find attached. for the ones more thch oriented
I hope it can help somebody, and of course, I take no responsibility if the mod won't perform well.!
Safety Disclaimer: We are talking about brakes that are a fundamental safety element, and although I implemented the mod on my own bike and I'm fully convinced it's perfectly fine from the technical viewpoint. the responsibility must remain in the hands of whoever implements the mod on his/her bike ...

PS I tried to upload my PDF file, but seems to be too large for the forum server... I paste below the text hoping it retains readable formatting and the most significant pics
TRIUMPH LEGEND BRAKES UPGRADE

Front Disc Dimensions: Rear Disc Dimensions:
Ext. Diam: 318 mm Ext. Diam: 285 mm
Hub Diam: 144.2 mm Hub Diam: 144.2 mm
Pad Track: 31 mm Pad Track: 31 mm
Thickness: 5 mm Thickness: 5 mm
Mounting Holes Pitch:166 mm Mounting Holes Pitch:166 mm
Mounting Holes Diam:10.5mm Mounting Holes Diam:10.5 mm
Mounting Holes : 6x Mounting Holes Number: 5x
Offset: 0 mm Offset: 0 mm

Compatible models:
ADVENTURER: 1996-2001 BONNEVILLE AMERICA 790 (908M):2002/2006
LEGEND TT:1998-2000 SPEEDMASTER (908ML) 790:2003/2004
THUNDERBIRD 900:1995-1999 ) AMERICA 865:2007/2017
THRUXTON 8650:2004-2013 SPEEDMASTER 865:2005/2017
ADVENTURER (T309RC):1996/2001
LEGEND TT (T309RT):1999/2001
THUNDERBIRD 900 (T309RT):1995/2003
THUNDERBIRD SPORT (T309RD)1997/2004
TIGER 900 (T409EN):1999/2001
TIGER 955 (T720):2001/2004
EBC MD643, MD677 ???
https://www.other forum/hinckley-classic-triples/150599-budget-front-brake-upgrade-2.html

(info to be verified) …playing with F3 and F2 bits, I came to the realization that one can fit an F2 wheel in front, but use F3 fork tubes/lower legs. The key is that the rotor bolt pattern for the F2 and our bonnies are identical...and by fitting stock Bonnie 310 mm rotors, the caliper mounts on the F3 lower legs are properly positioned. The F2 Honda guys have never gotten this to work (on the CBR forum), but they are missing the rotor knowledge.

This allows you to retain the mechanical speedo drive, but gives full cartridge forks (you may have those being a '94...all earlier F2s were damper rod) and a 20mm larger brake rotor diameter.

Front calipers from Bonneville, Thruxton, Scrambler, and Thunderbird's are all compatible

Nissin 3 Pistons Caliper
Calipers and brakes from Honda
CBF 1000 06 >
CBF1000F 06 >
CBF600 08 >
CB600F Hornet 07 >
DN-01

Are direct bolt-on upgrades assumed they are from ABS models
Calipers only from other popular models including TransAlp 07, Varadero, SH300, CBF500, VFR 800, CBR 1100, ST1300, PS250 are reported to compatible too.
Some attention must be paid to the dimension of the 3 inner pistons: they can vary between 22, 23, and 25 mm which in the case of 3x25 mm may suggest/require increasing the diameter of the master cylinder
A widely available compatible caliper is the one for Honda SH125-150-300 2009-2012 Caliper part# 45150-KTW-901 (w/ 45190-KSV-001 bracket) that I bought new for 50 EUR.
The caliper is perfect for the installation on TB Series single caliper bikes (mine is a Legend) but the correct bracket part # is:45190-MFA-D11 has to be sourced (I paid more for the bracket than for the caliper, but I have a brand new assembly for just slightly more than a CBF 600/1000 savaged caliper

Caliper pistons dimensions: 2x 25.4mm, 1x 22.7mm (total surface 1418 mmsq). The stock master cylinder has 11mm diam. (surface 95 sqmm) which brings a ratio of 14.9.
Just for comparison the stock caliper has 2x27mm pistons. Surface 1145 mmsq Ratio 12
Ratio 13.7 (after Monti’s post on the “other” list, with a single caliper the optimal value is 13.5, below 12 is wooden, above 15 is spongey

As said above the correct bracket part # is:45190-MFA-D11 and is installed on the following models:
CB 600 F (2007-2013 ABS Models), CBF 600 (2008-2009), CBR 600 F(2011-2012)
NSA 700 (2008-2009), CB 1000R (2009-2013, 2015)
CBF 1000 F(2006-2010 ABS Models), CBF 1000 S(2007-2009 ABS Models)
CBF 1000 T (2007-2009 ABS Models), CB 1100 (2013), CB 1300 (2010)
(The part number of bracket installed on CBF 1000, CBF 600 and Hornet is 45190-MBZ-D61) reported in the IrMike thread on Triumhrat, but it’s wrong)

Have fun, cheers from Prague (Czech Republic)

Max

 

[ghiromax]

I see that the compatibility chart is not readable so I did a screenshot

 

[f r o s t y]

great report, very good job! thank you