Reclaiming History...

[The Seeker]

When I recently broke my ribs, I started reading a book I've had for a while, but never got around to starting.

It's called "Reclaiming History" by Vincent Bugliosi, the former Los Angeles District Attorney who convicted Charles Manson and wrote the book Helter Skelter.

It took him over 30 years to write. He calls the topic "toxic" and says anyone thinking about delving into the topic should just stay away.

It's about 5 inches thick and is the most comprehensive book on the John F. Kennedy assassination ever written.

Perhaps your mind is made up about what actually happened that day, but once you read this, I don't think there is any possible way to disagree that the Dallas Texas Police Department should have had the lead and if they had, all the conspiracies would have been put to rest as soon as their investigation was completed.

For all intents and purposes, and considering there really isn't a Federal law saying it's illegal to murder a sitting President, it was just another murder case which should have been left up to the local Police to solve and prosecute. Had that been done, all the questions people have would have been answered.

 

[CarlS]

I would like to read it. Maybe next winter I can get to it. I have no idea what really happened; but I do not believe the "official" version for a host of reasons.

 

[avion]

Aren't the case files supposed to be open to the public after so many years? I thought I heard that on a JFK doccu' that I watched on the telly a while back. Can't remember what year it was though.

Saying that, who knows if it's all the info anyway?

"Who watches the watchers?"

...

 

[otherwise]

I saw an interesting program a couple of mths ago on the subject. The quick summary of the program was, Cubans arranged the shooting as retaliation to JFK endorsing the Bay Of Pigs fiasco. We'll never be told the truth. This stuff is interesting but I see it like Carl's oil thread, I'm interested to read the bottom line, but I'm to old to spend my sunset years worrying about it.

 

[CarlS]

The whole of the JFK files are sealed. The Warren Report was sealed until all of the folks living at the the time will have died. I forget the exact year it can be released. I won't be around to read it. Like Kevin said, I do not worry about it. It is what it is and I cannot change it. I am convinced we were not told the truth - not that such is unusual.

 

[The Seeker]

As I said, everything that you really need to know was already taken into evidence by the Dallas Police. Oswald did virtually nothing to cover-up his deeds. Both bullets that hit Kennedy came from above and from the rear....that cannot even be disputed and I don't know why people still try and say any of them came from the front. His first shot missed and hit the pavement. The second shot hit him in the rear at the base of his neck, exiting through his throat but wasn't life threatening. The third shot entered the back right of his head and exited the right front temporal area blowing 1/4 of his brain out. There were 4 people who saw Oswald in the window, one of which IDed him in a line-up. Employees in the window beneath him heard all three shots, the bolt action being used, and the spent shells hitting the floor. His fingerprints were all over the gun and the shells as well as the boxes he piled up. The Police actually had the magazine recovered from his personal effects where he ordered the rifle from and the actual order blank he filled out along with the company's records that they shipped to him that serial number rifle. Also found in his personal effects were the photos and the negatives showing him posing with the rifle and the pistol used to kill the policeman. He was the only employee of the building who went missing immediately following the shooting, A bus driver and a cab driver IDed him saying they transported him to the area the policeman was shot. He was caught with the bus transfer in his shirt pocket. Three eyewitnesses watched him kill Office Tippets and IDed him in a line-up. Several more eyewitnesses IDed him as the man that ran from the scene of the policeman's shooting. He was caught in possession of the pistol. Ballistic tests proved the gun he had on him was the same that killed the cop. Ballistics proved his rifle killed the President. Gunpowder residue was on Oswald's hands and his right cheek. Oswald has attempted to murder a General only a Month earlier but failed. The guy that drove him to work that morning saw him in possession of a brown paper package that was shaped to be capable of holding the rifle, but Oswald said they were curtain rods. Oswald was a member of the Fair Play For Cuba communist group (and others) and was furious with Kennedy.

Jack Ruby who murdered Oswald told people he wanted to kill Oswald because he thought Oswald might get set free by a jury, he didn't want Mrs. Kennedy to have to testify, he loved Kennedy, he felt bad for Kennedy's kids, he wanted to show people Dallas was a good city, and he wanted to prove that "Jews had guts".

If there was any type of cover-up, it wasn't to hide a conspiracy, but to hide the fact that the FBI (under Hoover) dropped the ball because they knew he had moved from New Orleans to Dallas, had been to the Russian Embassy in Mexico City, and yet didn't keep him under surveillance in Dallas knowing that the President was going to be there. Hoover didn't want the public to know his mistakes allowed it to happen and in many ways Hoover was more powerful than anyone - including Presidents.

 

[CarlS]

I am even skeptical of that report. I know for an absolute fact that police reports can be and are doctored to show what they want them to show - to include falsifying. The same for FBI reports. The Dallas police report is no more or less credible than the US government's reports. Truth is not a factor in these reports. Normally conviction is the guiding factor - and it matters not if it is the right or wrong person. That is not to say that no one in law enforcement has integrity. I am sure most reports are written as honestly as the officer can do it. But everyone has preconceived notions and the tend to write to support those notions. Then the higher ups get in the act on the reviews and politics enter in. And the main factor along is marking and a case solved and obtaining a conviction.

Have you ever fired one of those rifles? I owned one. The bolt action is stiff and rough. It is definitely not a Mauser action. I am skeptical that Oswald could fire three shots that quickly in succession with any accuracy at all, especially without a scope. I tried it many times with my rifle and back then I was a pretty good marksman. The rifle is certainly accurate enough - IF you take your time. And Oswald was not an expert marksman. Yes, he was familiar with firearms; but he was far from an expert. That particular rifle would be way down list, if on the list at all, for a sniper rifle.

What is the true evidence? How much of the evidence has been doctored, not released, and/or falsified? The public does not know and probably never will know. I don't hold to any conspiracy theory; I just do not trust the government on anything, period. Especially something of that magnitude with all of the political ramifications. The Dallas police report could be 100% accurate or it could be doctored the way the powers that be were wanted it doctored.

 

[The Seeker]

The rifle was fitted from the manufacturer with a scope and Oswald was a better than average shot according to his Marine Corps records (you can't get out of USMC basic without at least a marksman rating), plus the distance was quite small. It wouldn't take much skill to pull off the shots and the time frame to load and aim wasn't anywhere out of the ordinary. They even say that the 3rd fatal shot was probably the easiest of the three.

All the doctors that examined Kennedy recognized and agree that all entry wounds were from the rear. The only question that ever arose came from the autopsy in Washington wondering where the EXIT wound was from the 2nd shot....but then they called Dallas and were informed that they had done a tracheotomy using the exit wound, which is why Washington didn't realize that was it.

The Warren Report is still classified (to some degree), but the Dallas police records are not.

 

[DaveM]

I think this type of book would just be a bit to heavy for me to get through

 

[The Seeker]

I think this type of book would just be a bit to heavy for me to get through

It took him 30+ years to research and write!!

 

[DaveM]

And it would take me about the same time to read. Also the subject does not tweak my interest that much I suppose so it would be hard to keep me interested in reading it

 

[The Seeker]

Yeah, the book is close to 2000 pages long and I'm not finished yet. It was $49.95 USD, but I got a 20% off coupon so I didn't pay that much.

 

[The Seeker]

I saw an interesting program a couple of mths ago on the subject. The quick summary of the program was, Cubans arranged the shooting as retaliation to JFK endorsing the Bay Of Pigs fiasco. We'll never be told the truth. This stuff is interesting but I see it like Carl's oil thread, I'm interested to read the bottom line, but I'm to old to spend my sunset years worrying about it.

The Military Channel (available in the US) had a type of documentary that was really well done re-examining the case with modern technology. It was very thorough.

They took exact measurements and used the exact same weapon as Oswald used (ammo and all). They then used ballistic gel with bone embedded in it and everything and then fired the shots from the same angles and distance. Once they got the shot all lined-up exactly the same, they were able to reproduce the exact wounds that both Kennedy and Gov. Connolly had.

 

[The Seeker]

There's a person on YouTube who's got a channel that's completely related to all things John F. Kennedy. It's pretty amazing! He's got original videos from the 3 major US TV networks from the day of the assassination, many videos relating to the assassination, and a complete playlist of the mock trial that Vincent Bugliosi and Gerry Spence had done in London where they give Lee Harvey Oswald the murder trial he never had.


The JFK Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/DavidVonPein1#g/u

Here's the URL for the playlist of "On Trial - Lee Harvey Oswald": http://www.youtube.com/user/DavidVonPein1#g/c/974A39F551630434

 

[CarlS]

Interesting link. Thanks.

 

[The Seeker]

I've been watching the mock trial from his channel.

It's a lot cheaper than buying the DVD....LOL!!

 

[CarlS]

A WHOLE lot cheaper. For the record, I do not believe Oswald acted alone; I do believe he was involved. I do not believe in coincidences - and there are just too many coincidences. If it were a simple case of a disenchanted Marxist idiot pulling the trigger, why is the Warren Report sealed? What is being hidden?

 

[The Seeker]

It's no longer sealed and there was a House Committee investigation in the 70's that was quite complete.

You really should read the book and find out just how conclusive the evidence is against Oswald and just how much misinformation has been propagated by the conspiracy theorists.

Even Oswald's Brother knows he did it and explains why.

 

[CarlS]

The Warren Report is still sealed; it has not been released. Portions of it have. I have no doubt that Oswald was involved - I do think there are others. I will read that book. I have a read many other books on both sides of the issue. Having owned that rifle model Oswald used, I can assure you it is extremely difficult to fire that rifle accurately in the time frame he did. The rifle itself is accurate. The bolt action is stiff and clunky. I could fire it as rapidly as he did; but not accurately. And I was a darn good marksman in those days.

 

[The Seeker]

Actually, the rifle he used was deemed by the Army's weapons experts as being as good as a M-14 and was still being used by the Italian Army in 1963.

Conspiracy theorists claim he had to fire 3 shots in about 4 seconds, but the fact is that it was more like 9 seconds (because he was already loaded and aiming the 1st shot, he only had to reload and aim twice). Oswald qualified as a sharpshooter in the Marines and was able to hit targets in the 2000 yard range consistently. The President's head was only 56 yards away on the fatal shot. His scope was off to to the left-high and this also explains why if he was trying to hit the middle of the head, the actual bullet hit the right side.

Oswald had gone to target practice with that rifle pretty often before the assassination too.