It Takes An Engineer

[atomsplitter]

I've worked on a lot of different motorcycles over the years, of all different makes. And in those years of dealing with the engineering brilliance of makers I have to admit that most of the time there's good reason for how a bike is put together. There are exceptions to the general rule and I have found to really screw things up beyond all reason and rationale it requires an Engineer. Whoever was resonsible for the design of the rear brake system on the 1600/1700 Thunderbirds must have been under one of two conditions, either they were "in their cups" or alternatively, completely insane. I have never had to remove a rear wheel to replace caliper pads until today. To do that requires removal of the silencers. The caliper carrier rides on a welded bar on the inside of the swingarm. So once you have the wheel out there's nothing preventing the caliper and carrier from falling off the bike and dangling from the hydraulic hose/speed sensor wire. ?? To pull the old pads out you first pull the pin on the grenade, er, caliper R-clip and then drive the pin out with a punch. You'll need no less than 3 hands to do this if you already pulled the wheel. Note to self, drift the pin out as step one. It's easiest if you pull the top hats and rubber grommets that hold the silencers on because it's a straight shot through that frame hole to set the drift punch.

To install the new pads the pistons have to be driven back so there's enough room to wedge the brake rotor between them. I used a compressor tool on one but couldn't fit it for the second so had to use fingers and brute force to retract it. I didn't need those finger nails anyway so no harm done.. Once the new pads are fitted into the caliper slots the pin is then driven back into the caliper (I used a rubber mallet), which ensures the pads fall out of the slots and the anti-rattle spring bounces off the garage floor. Ask anyone, that's handy. Get the pin back out, refit the pads and anti-rattle spring, push the pin in until you see stars dancing in front of your eyes so you don't jar the pads and see if the R-clip will fit into the pin's hole. Get that sorted and you're ready to install the wheel. To make this a simple job the Engineer in charge provided a belt driven cush drive that is not affixed to the wheel with anything more solid than breathable atmosphere. So it becomes a balancing act with trying to fit the caliper over the brake disc on the left side while not simultaneously dropping the cush drive off the right side of the wheel, as you must flex the drive belt over the pulley on the right, and install the carrier on the welded bar on the inside of the swingarm on the left, while lifting the wheel in place to align the rear axle thru swingarm adjusters, wheel breaings, and out the other side, all in one easy motion. What could be simpler? Thank God my son-in-law came over to help, because the simple truth is, done per the manual, it can't be done by one person. Replacing brake pads is a routine maintenance item, it takes an Engineer to make it a chore (bordering on abuse). Got it all back together, belt tensioned, brake pads engaged, and took it for a test ride. It all works like it should. Total time 3 hours X 2 people. Don't expect your dealer to do it on the cheap, folks.

 

[Rocky]

Wow, that really is a chore - and then some!

 

[Vector]

It is intentional in design as it forces many less talented in mechanical work to pay a dealer big bucks.

 

[atomsplitter]

It is intentional in design as it forces many less talented in mechanical work to pay a dealer big bucks.

I can imagine the guys and gals on the assembly line had a few choice words when it was coming down the line (none of them fit to print).

 

[Vector]

Back in the 70’s I could work on my bikes without cussing as everything was accessible.

 

[Qship]

I left the tire changing up to the dealer on my 800+lb T'bird LT. Never had to change the rear brakes, so don't know if they were the same cursed set up as the Storm. Glad I got my Tiger with the single sided swingarm when I did.

 

[atomsplitter]

I left the tire changing up to the dealer on my 800+lb T'bird LT. Never had to change the rear brakes, so don't know if they were the same cursed set up as the Storm. Glad I got my Tiger with the single sided swingarm when I did.

To answer your question, yes, same setup. The pads on the front require the center pin removed (threaded) and the pads lifted straight up from the caliper. Takes about 5 minutes per caliper. What I want to know is why would anyone anywhere want to use a brake caliper that: (1) cannot be rebuilt and, (2) requires a pit crew just to change the pads? My only rationale for using something like that is that the caliper manufacturer was giving away 10 for each one purchased, and Triumph just couldn't resist gatting a bargain.

 

[Qship]

One time when they(the Triumph dealer) changed my rear tire. I got about 30 kms away on the way home and the ABS and check engine lights started going off. When they reinstalled everything they routed the ABS wire to the sensor wrong and it rubbed on the rear disc and grounded out on the disc. A phone call and another 1.5 hour trip(one way) a couple of weeks later got the problem fixed. I temporarily fixed it with some electrical tape and proper routing until getting back for them to fix their error.

 

[atomsplitter]

Fingers crossed that's the last set of pads I have to put in the rear.

 

[Vector]

Fingers crossed that's the last set of pads I have to put in the rear.

Use the front brake LOL

 

[atomsplitter]

Use the front brake LOL

That's pretty much all I use on all my bikes, however my little brother rides it too occasionally and he's a rear brake user. His habits caused him to lock-up the rear wheel on his 2006 Rocket III numerous times over the years, thank heavens that's not possible with the T-Bird because it has (non-linked) ABS.

 

[Vector]

I rode with a guy who never used his front brake saying it was too dangerous. I told him to ride nowhere near me. I don’t know why these people don’t understand that 70% of your stopping power is the front brake and you need to learn to use it correctly.

 

[atomsplitter]

I rode with a guy who never used his front brake saying it was too dangerous. I told him to ride nowhere near me. I don’t know why these people don’t understand that 70% of your stopping power is the front brake and you need to learn to use it correctly.

Maybe that's why they put TWO disks in front!!?? On the R3 forum some years back I posted about the weight shift forward of the bike regardless of which brake was engaged initially. (For those newbies out there hit ONLY your rear brake and watch your handlebars dive down as the bikes weight is transferred to the front tire). It was most pronounced on the Rocket due to its 800+ pounf bilk and forward center of gravity bias that rear wheel lock-up was easier on that bike than any other bike I had ever ridden. I use my front to stop, the rear to mostly moderate speed.

 

[Vector]

800 lbs? Mine is 640 lbs.

 

[atomsplitter]

800 lbs? Mine is 640 lbs.

Yup, the first versions were 704+ dry weight. Add bags, foot boards, accessories, all fluids and she was a hefty gal. With me on board over half a ton....

 

[Bloodknot]

Back in the 70’s I could work on my bikes without cussing as everything was accessible.

Back in the 70’s most of us will have taken the majority of our meagre toolkit with us on longish journeys. LOL

 

[Arrowbear rider]

I recently was going to replace my rear pads my self and I watched a YouTube video and it looked pretty straight forward with removing the pin to get the pads out... No such luck. The big bike really isn't easy to work on while setting on the ground either and I decided to get my new rear tire installed about a month early; I could have gone longer on the old tire, but my rear pads were completely worn out.

I had been using only my front brakes for a little over a month, but since I like to use my rear brakes for slow maneuvers while turning I decided to change the tire early and get the pads done at the same time. I went to a highly recommended independent mechanic to get a tire I ordered and already had installed (I had the pads too) and asked him how much extra to change the pads while he already had the wheel off; inserting that it only should take a few minutes to remove a pin and swap out the pads. He said he'd do it no extra charge. Great I was hoping to pay for 10 or 15 minutes more of labor, but saving money since the wheel and silencers were already off; doing it for free was a win.

Next time, I only hope he doesn't remember the problems he had working on the bike, he said "the bike is fighting me" when getting the rear wheel off & on, and he apologized for the extra time it was taking to do the work. The same with the brake pads, it wasn't easy to get the pin out and in all it took him twice as long to remove, replace and reinstall the pads and the wheel. It was money well spent! And, at $120 an hour vs $175 an hour at the dealership he was a bargain.

 

[brooke]

I've worked on a lot of different motorcycles over the years, of all different makes. And in those years of dealing with the engineering brilliance of makers I have to admit that most of the time there's good reason for how a bike is put together. There are exceptions to the general rule and I have found to really screw things up beyond all reason and rationale it requires an Engineer. Whoever was resonsible for the design of the rear brake system on the 1600/1700 Thunderbirds must have been under one of two conditions, either they were "in their cups" or alternatively, completely insane. I have never had to remove a rear wheel to replace caliper pads until today. To do that requires removal of the silencers. The caliper carrier rides on a welded bar on the inside of the swingarm. So once you have the wheel out there's nothing preventing the caliper and carrier from falling off the bike and dangling from the hydraulic hose/speed sensor wire. ?? To pull the old pads out you first pull the pin on the grenade, er, caliper R-clip and then drive the pin out with a punch. You'll need no less than 3 hands to do this if you already pulled the wheel. Note to self, drift the pin out as step one. It's easiest if you pull the top hats and rubber grommets that hold the silencers on because it's a straight shot through that frame hole to set the drift punch.

To install the new pads the pistons have to be driven back so there's enough room to wedge the brake rotor between them. I used a compressor tool on one but couldn't fit it for the second so had to use fingers and brute force to retract it. I didn't need those finger nails anyway so no harm done.. Once the new pads are fitted into the caliper slots the pin is then driven back into the caliper (I used a rubber mallet), which ensures the pads fall out of the slots and the anti-rattle spring bounces off the garage floor. Ask anyone, that's handy. Get the pin back out, refit the pads and anti-rattle spring, push the pin in until you see stars dancing in front of your eyes so you don't jar the pads and see if the R-clip will fit into the pin's hole. Get that sorted and you're ready to install the wheel. To make this a simple job the Engineer in charge provided a belt driven cush drive that is not affixed to the wheel with anything more solid than breathable atmosphere. So it becomes a balancing act with trying to fit the caliper over the brake disc on the left side while not simultaneously dropping the cush drive off the right side of the wheel, as you must flex the drive belt over the pulley on the right, and install the carrier on the welded bar on the inside of the swingarm on the left, while lifting the wheel in place to align the rear axle thru swingarm adjusters, wheel breaings, and out the other side, all in one easy motion. What could be simpler? Thank God my son-in-law came over to help, because the simple truth is, done per the manual, it can't be done by one person. Replacing brake pads is a routine maintenance item, it takes an Engineer to make it a chore (bordering on abuse). Got it all back together, belt tensioned, brake pads engaged, and took it for a test ride. It all works like it should. Total time 3 hours X 2 people. Don't expect your dealer to do it on the cheap, folks.

That’s why I do less and less maintenance every year . Winterizing the ride on mower is getting to be all I want to tackle . I’ve got at least 28 pistons around here , not counting brakes . Too many !

 

[Bloodknot]

I recently was going to replace my rear pads my self and I watched a YouTube video and it looked pretty straight forward with removing the pin to get the pads out... No such luck. The big bike really isn't easy to work on while setting on the ground either and I decided to get my new rear tire installed about a month early; I could have gone longer on the old tire, but my rear pads were completely worn out.

I had been using only my front brakes for a little over a month, but since I like to use my rear brakes for slow maneuvers while turning I decided to change the tire early and get the pads done at the same time. I went to a highly recommended independent mechanic to get a tire I ordered and already had installed (I had the pads too) and asked him how much extra to change the pads while he already had the wheel off; inserting that it only should take a few minutes to remove a pin and swap out the pads. He said he'd do it no extra charge. Great I was hoping to pay for 10 or 15 minutes more of labor, but saving money since the wheel and silencers were already off; doing it for free was a win.

Next time, I only hope he doesn't remember the problems he had working on the bike, he said "the bike is fighting me" when getting the rear wheel off & on, and he apologized for the extra time it was taking to do the work. The same with the brake pads, it wasn't easy to get the pin out and in all it took him twice as long to remove, replace and reinstall the pads and the wheel. It was money well spent! And, at $120 an hour vs $175 an hour at the dealership he was a bargain.

I’m amazed that you have actually worn out a set of rear pads. You must do a lot of miles.

A couple of years back I changed all of the brake pads on my Ducati to EBC sintered ones, having ridden a newish machine bought by one of my lads and realising how much better his brakes were than the OE ones on my 20 year old machine.

When I pulled the pads the back ones were still full thickness and the fronts still had plenty of meat on them which I largely attribute to the amazing engine braking of the L twin lump obviating the need to use the anchors at all a lot of the time.

 

[atomsplitter]

I’m amazed that you have actually worn out a set of rear pads. You must do a lot of miles.

Bought the bike used, the PO was a back brake user. I discovered the pads near the squealer plate when I replaced the rear tire. Replacing the front tire I found the pads were near full thickness. I'm beginning to think that learning to ride a bicycle at an early age on a coaster brake only bicycle is detrimental to developing later riding skills....