Industry Insider: Arguments Surrounding Alternative Energy

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There’s a lot at play in today’s motorcycle market when it comes to alternative fuel options.

On the one side, we have the solid, stalwart fossil fuel lovers – the majority of us, I imagine, aboard the usual ICE-blessed Kawasaki, Triumph, Harley-Davidson, Yamaha, KTM, Honda and Suzuki.

Why do we love to play with petrol? You’ll hear a range of reasons, from the traditional ‘it sounds better,’ to the obligatory, ‘it’s more convenient,’ ‘I trust them more,’ ‘the others are ugly’…and, of course, the obvious: ‘It’s cheaper.’

A model walking toward an electric motorcycle from DAB Motors

Still, the argument that clean tootles about the town are the ever-growing option can’t be swiped to the side like your latest Tinder catfish. It’s happening, and it’s happening more than ever.

The counter-arguments from the opposite side of the camp? Anything from, ‘It’s new,’ to ‘it’s better for the environment,’ ‘it’s cool,’ or, “I’m having my mid-life crisis, and it was the perfect new toy to play with” (an actual quote from an acquaintance of mine).

A side view of a model riding a Zero Motorcycle

In short, all perfectly human reasons to want something different to swing a leg over.

So let’s look at the real reasons why y’all should be even considering alternative fuel – and we’ll start with the potential cons of current clean energy cats.

While I love EVs, I like to fight fair – and this way, the can of worms is opened quicker.

The EsseEsse 9+ electric motorcycle from Energica, with optional side cases.

Con #1: Weight​


A bloke by the name of Geoff – in connection with an article on TheDriven – isn’t the biggest fan of electric machines when it comes to efficiency. He actually believes that hydrogen is where the future of motorcycle riding should be – and his first argument deals with the heaviness of a battery.

“In a car like our [Tesla] Model 3, around 50% of the weight is batteries – this is impossible in an EVMC as it wouldn’t be able to be held upright and couldn’t be picked up if it fell over,” Geoff argues.

“Lithium can work for cars where battery weight is not an issue and bicycles where range and speed are not issues. For EVMCs, on the other hand, range and weight are utterly critical DNA design issues. If it’s one thing, lithium can’t do its EVMCs.”

A view of a supersport electric motorcycle from Damon motors

Despite lighter EV machines like SONDORS and RQI’s NIU boasting a light step to the scale (~90kg/200lbs. and 100kg/22lbs., respectively), he’s right – the power-to-weight ratio has been a big issue with the earlier electric bikes of the industry.

Still, with newer lineups of bikes from cutting-edge companies like Energica bringing something like the 258–280 kg Ego to the table (peak power at 126 kW / 171 hp, torque at 159 lb.-ft., top speed of 150 mph, and range sitting at 261 miles for city / 123 miles for highway / 153 miles for combined), that argument will soon only be valid for the more budget-friendly/lower-priced EV bikes.

A side view fo the Harley-Davidson LiveWire One

Con #2: Charging Potential​


This leads us to the next point – recharge potential and access.

“90% of motorcyclists are tourers and cruisers, not commuters,” Geoff argues.

“For instance, all of my trips are 200+ km, and I use my motorcycles very little around town.”

“Where we ride, there ARE no recharge capabilities – and even if there were, they would be inadequate for the number of bikes on a ride…that is because we go to the bush (I am just back from a 200km ride into the bush) [and] where we stop is by a creek or roadside café.”


This is relatively easily fixed for now with the concept that [most] decently priced electric motorcycles are best suited for a more urban setting until their range is extended with the advancement of electric technology.

…Unless you’ve plotted your course and gotten your hands on something like the Harley-Davidson LiveWire – a machine that (most of you know by now) charges to 80 percent in 40 minutes and 100 percent in an hour, punting the machine’s range to 146 miles before running dry.

The LiveWire from Harley Davidson

Con #3: Support​


Speak of the devil.

Our curated content here comes from an avid Aussie-based EV rider named Nigel Morris over at another corner of TheDriven, on his reason for choosing a LiveWire over a Zero EV motorcycle.

“I’ve owned more than forty motorcycles and ridden many more, including several Harley Davidsons, but I can honestly say I have never imagined myself as a Harley owner. But here I am,” Morris comments.

“Whilst I enjoyed many years of riding, unfortunately on both my Zero’s, I also had a fair bit of downtime due to problems which cost me a lot of time, money, and ultimately being without a bike on several occasions.”

A rider experiencing the LiveWire One
Harley Davidson’s LiveWire One

“Initially, there were dealers who could assist me, but that dried up several years ago. Unfortunately, for me, that meant that a relatively simple problem could not be fixed because there was no one with the programming tools in Australia for almost two years, which was an essential requirement.”

“Although the locally based ELMOFO stepped up and became a warranty support agent around six months ago and my bike is now equipped with new electronics, drive train and motor, it did leave me feeling nervous.”
“Harley Davidson, on the other hand, is very well established in Australia, has dealers everywhere, and I feel confident, a brand that it wants to protect by supporting local owners well.”


A side view of an electric motorcycle from Zero Motorcycles

So let’s have a huddle over all this.

Electric machines may still sport inconveniences that are trumped by gas-powered bikes…but that’s not the real reason why there’s an influx of EVs on the road.

The real reason is that our country is aligning to a cleaner future – a future that, whether we like it or not, is attracted to alternative fuel options.

It’s the big thing for the country to talk about – it’s why I’m talking about it now.

Sync that to skyrocketing gas prices countrywide, to the renewed interest from a surge of newbies looking to integrate into the two-wheeled market to save money and our nation’s heavy industry moguls required to change for production to better suit both the climate and their investors – and boom, you’ve got a movement.

Don’t worry – you’ll still get the same wind in your hair/sun in your face experience…it’ll just be a tad quieter.

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The pushback against alternative fuels, I find a little perplexing.

I totally understand the emotive arguments that are entrenched in our attachment to the things we love very dearly, but if we are having a purely intelectual argument, then alternative fuels are a no-brainer.

Keep in mind that we are still on a steep technological curve at the moment. Battery technology for example is still in its infancy (yes it is) and we read about a new technological breakthrough almost regularly these days.

The truth is that the technology will have probably moved in leaps by the time most of us are ready to buy our next bikes anyway. By which time we will have accepted all this change as normal.

The bottom line is that the world is moving quickly, and our collective attitudes also move quicker than we realise. It's all just a matter of time and mindset.
 
Cheaper is a strong argument when we don’t have income equality and the gap between the wealthy and poor is pretty huge.
I’d also point out that in transitioning to cleaner fuels and energy there are ways of adapting combustion engines to burn other sourced fuels, for instance ammonia.
I find the clamor to ban petrol engine vehicles naive. A first step should be first to adapt and transition. Also ignoring the non green aspects of producing electric vehicles and the high cost of battery replacement is disingenuous.
I agree the world will change and needs to, but the course should not be only for those with means.
 
Cheaper is a strong argument when we don’t have income equality and the gap between the wealthy and poor is pretty huge.
I’d also point out that in transitioning to cleaner fuels and energy there are ways of adapting combustion engines to burn other sourced fuels, for instance ammonia.
I find the clamor to ban petrol engine vehicles naive. A first step should be first to adapt and transition. Also ignoring the non green aspects of producing electric vehicles and the high cost of battery replacement is disingenuous.
I agree the world will change and needs to, but the course should not be only for those with means.
There's alot of misinformation out there, so be careful not to be gullible enough to believe it.

The first, and most important point is that no one is talking about banning petrol engines. No one!
So that's the first con.
Even the greenest greenie is taking about transition.

Also, electric vehicles are significantly cheaper to run, and once the development costs have been paid for by the initial buyers ( which is much sooner than you think) also significantly cheaper to build.
So that's the second con.

If people are honestly worried about those without means, then they would be doing all they can to encourage those with means to buy EVs NOW so that the buying price can come down sooner.

As for the un-green status of building EVs. Know your history.
It took horse and carts to build the steam rail economy, and it took steam rail to build the petrol fuel echonomy.
So it will take the petrol fuel echonomy to build the electrified echonomy.

Stop listening to the nay sayers. They are stuck in a 20th century mindset so they are almost always getting it all wrong.

And keep enjoying your petrol bike as I do, and will continue to forever... in the same way that horse owners still enjoy riding their horses.
 
Banning the sale of petrol vehicles including motorcycles in the U.K. was in a thread here recently. I believe transition is the way to go, I’m not a supporter of bans in general. To me a ban on sales is effectively a ban since people will not be able to buy new vehicles. Eventually old vehicles break down and need repairs. It’s not a stretch that any government that wants to make something like petrol vehicles go away can enact laws the effectively do exactly that. I’m all for new technology and you misunderstood my comment if that was your takeaway. Technology will change, but transitions have to be done in a sustainable way that does not leave anyone behind.
 
Sorry, my missunderstanding re the banning of petrol vehicles.

So did a quick google and found that the UK intends to ban sales of NEW petrol vehicles after 2030.

There are a number of implications here...

1. Anyone who still wants to ride/drive their petrol vehicles after that date is free to do so.

2. Those without the means to buy a new vehicle can still buy any used petrol vehicle after that date.

3. There will be a large number of used EVs on the market by then, for those who want to pick up a cheap used EV.

4. The doomsayers have grossly misrepresented the effect on those with lesser means.

As I said. Nobody is comming to take anyone's favourite bike away, and nobody will be left behind.
 
There's alot of misinformation out there, so be careful not to be gullible enough to believe it.

The first, and most important point is that no one is talking about banning petrol engines. No one!
So that's the first con.
Even the greenest greenie is taking about transition.

Also, electric vehicles are significantly cheaper to run, and once the development costs have been paid for by the initial buyers ( which is much sooner than you think) also significantly cheaper to build.
So that's the second con.

If people are honestly worried about those without means, then they would be doing all they can to encourage those with means to buy EVs NOW so that the buying price can come down sooner.

As for the un-green status of building EVs. Know your history.
It took horse and carts to build the steam rail economy, and it took steam rail to build the petrol fuel echonomy.
So it will take the petrol fuel echonomy to build the electrified echonomy.

Stop listening to the nay sayers. They are stuck in a 20th century mindset so they are almost always getting it all wrong.

And keep enjoying your petrol bike as I do, and will continue to forever... in the same way that horse owners still enjoy riding their horses.
Where will the power come from to charge all these electric vehicles? California can not keep the lights on now, what new source of power will technology soon bring us? I have not heard of any new miracle of energy.
 
As I said. Nobody is comming to take anyone's favourite bike away, and nobody will be left behind.
I do not trust government, especially one that pushes the climate change/climate crisis lie. You should be aware of governments attack on freedom considering what yours is doing right now. If they say you can't leave your home, they can say you can not drive.
 
I do not trust government, especially one that pushes the climate change/climate crisis lie. You should be aware of governments attack on freedom considering what yours is doing right now. If they say you can't leave your home, they can say you can not drive.
Please, do not turn this into a government/political discussion.
 
I'm not even going to try and guess where you get your facts from, but the truth is that ANY inability to keep lights on in California would be related to lack of investment in infrastructure. Nothing to do with shortage of available energy on the planet.

Keeping supply below optimum levels means increased profits. That's basic echonomics. The moment demand increases and there is a buck to be made, you will see multiple entrepreneurs come out of the woodwork to fill the gaps. Don't be fooled into believing otherwise.


As for not trusting governments, we are in total and complete agreement. That's why I educate myself on science and always ignore politicians... unless a politician is following the science

EV demand is driven by science, technology and the existential survival instinct. Goverments are followers in this game, not leaders.
 
I lived in CA for most of my life. I am 100% sure CA does not have the ability to provide enough power to transition off of fossil fuel (fossil being another non-scientific lie). The is no chance the western USA power grid can be upgraded to supply enough power to be oil free in a decade as planned.
 
I lived in CA for most of my life. I am 100% sure CA does not have the ability to provide enough power to transition off of fossil fuel (fossil being another non-scientific lie). The is no chance the western USA power grid can be upgraded to supply enough power to be oil free in a decade as planned.
OK, Wow. A flat Earther.
Discussion over.
 
Positioning yourself as a know it all and calling people names like Flat Earther will lead to your departure from this forum soon. Your mind is closed so I will gladly place you on ignore. Enjoy living in a penal colony.
My appologies if it caused offense. I can admit when I'm wrong.
 
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