Hello All And Progress Report

[Tim21]

Hi to all,
I joined the forum a couple of months ago when I became the new owner of a 1959 Twenty One. It happened by accident rather than design as I was asked if I would be interested in a "project" to help out my son in laws family as I retired last year and have time. (I already got back into bikes earlier this year when I negotiated a 1973 BMW R60/5 (6176 miles!) from a friend who didn't need it that I had been storing for him for the last 3 years, but that's another story).
This Twenty One is in overall good condition, it seems to have been renovated/rebuilt 15-20 years ago and according to the last MOT in 2004 done 20 miles since then. It looks like a previous owner has had engine work done, new exhausts, wheels, chain and rear shocks as well as painting the frame and metallic blue parts.

So over the last few weeks I have been cleaning rust away, replacing all rubber pipes:
Cleaning out the oil tank which had heavy sludge and changing all fluids:
Cleaning and sealing the tank:
I replaced the brake shoes as a previous owner had been a little "heavy" with the grease.
New tyres Avon Speedmaster and Safety Mileage (Strange name, but I remember using them in the 70's as I commuted up and down the M1 each week and needed high mileage tyres)
Replaced the very 1950's main Lucas switch PRS8 and installed a battery and tidied up the wiring.

So now the status is that I have a bike that runs! And despite the gears and brake being opposite from what I was always used to I seem to have managed!!
All the gears select and work OK, as does the clutch.

Now this is the point where I might ask for some feedback:

I was a little concerned at first as the engine does get very hot. Initially there was some smoke but that I attribute to my cleaning with WD 40. Anyway it stopped. I did clean out the small steel pipe that lubes the rocker box from the return feed. I was surprised to see that the oil is intended to flow down the outside of the threaded stud from the banjo and 8mm ID washer without any holes drilled into the stud. I assume this is normal as only a small amount of oil is needed?

The other possible issue is that when the engine warms there seems to be quite a lot of vibration and noise from the chaincase.
As I really don't have any experience with this kind of engine I am thinking firstly to remove the primary chaincase and check the chain tension. The manual mentions a rubber "shock absorber" within the clutch. As the bike has been sitting unused for the best part of 15 years I wonder if this is something that can deteriorate over time? Would this cause vibration and noise but still allow the clutch to operate? Or are there other things I should check first?

any comments would be appreciated.

Tim

 

[Tim21]

I forgot another couple of jobs completed.
Fork seals (they were supplied as having failed 15 years ago).
Headrace bearings.
Both jobs were actually easier than anticipated. (Not often I can say that!).
Still to do is fit Accuspark ignition (supplied with the bike but not fitted) and HT leads.

 

[grandpaul]

You need someone local to you, who is familiar with the noise/sound levels that typical classic Triumphs make.

Trying to determine the relative sound level you call "a lot" (of noise and vibration), may actually be normal.

 

[Tim21]

You need someone local to you, who is familiar with the noise/sound levels that typical classic Triumphs make.

Trying to determine the relative sound level you call "a lot" (of noise and vibration), may actually be normal.

 

[Tim21]

Thanks Grandpaul for your answer.
You have a good point! I simply don't know what is normal.
I will though remove the chaincase cover to take a look. As the bike is new to me it would do no harm anyway to check and see if there is anything obvious.
Apart from this possible problem I love the bike, it's low, easy to manouver and comfortable, whereas the BMW is quite high and heavy. Although my title says riding for 50 years there was a 45 year gap between Lambretta and Suzuki's in my teens then back to Lambretta 4 years ago then 2 motorcycles so it's like starting all over again.

 

[sikatri]

A few here with long gaps. LoL. Nice job.

 

[speedrattle]

that is a lovely bike. i have a friend who raced one of those and got up into the high 90s with a fairing.

 

[triumph david]

Nice bike, one of the bikes i would love to have!!!!!!

 

[Tim21]

Today I had the chance to remove the primary chaincase cover and take a look. The chainwheel rocks about 4mm in and out while the clutch remains in place. The manual shows some rollers attached to the clutch centre which I assume are supposed to hold it in place but there is no swarf or metal parts in the oil that came out.

I will investigate tomorrow and report.

 

[grandpaul]

Today I had the chance to remove the primary chaincase cover and take a look. The chainwheel rocks about 4mm in and out while the clutch remains in place. The manual shows some rollers attached to the clutch centre which I assume are supposed to hold it in place but there is no swarf or metal parts in the oil that came out.

I will investigate tomorrow and report.

It could have been re-assembled without the thrust washer in place behind the 20 tiny roller bearings... 4mm seems a bit much

 

[Tim21]

Thanks Grandpaul, I agree and saw an older thread in this forum about the same topic. Seems a bit of play is normal, but I agree there may have been a mistake when it was rebuild over15 years ago and not ridden. I have tools on order and will strip it next week.

 

[Tim21]

Update on the clutch:
I found the Haynes manual useful as it shows the early clutch with 4 springs and also the later version that has 3. It would seem that I have the early clutch designed without thrust washer but at some point the later clutch basket/sprocket was fitted which should have a thrust washer. In this case because the parts are interchanged there is not enough space for it, but enough to give it a huge wobble.
So rather than mess around I have ordered a complete new clutch assembly and hopefully receive and install it in the next few days. Fingers crossed!

 

[Tim21]

So the new clutch arrived, it's a L.F. Harris and seems really good quality. The biggest difference is that this one has a thrust washer and also the faces that it contacts are completely different from the old one that I removed.
So new clutch installed now. Slight snag with the adjustment screw and locking nut as these were much larger than the original. I checked that the new clutch pressure plate was clear of the casing to make sure that there was no interference then removed the screw and nut. I took 5mm off the screw and 1mm off the nut. I also dremmelled out 1 mm from the chaincase access screw cover as well.
Test ride this afternoon: did 20 miles, clutch is much smoother now and works fine. Noise and vibrations are reduced. I wouldn't say perfect but maybe that's just the way it is. As I don't know the history of the bike it's quite difficult to guess what has been changed, what is worn and what mistakes have been made. Anyway my plan is to do a few more miles, check for swarf in the engine, chaincase and gearbox. If all is OK then carry on.

 

[Tim21]

I have now covered over 80 miles since the new clutch, 60 of them yesterday as it's possibly the last of Summer sunshine for a while. I also adjusted the mixture screw to 1 1/2 turns out, not quite book setting but being as I had to use abrasive paper on the Amal slide to get it to fit properly as it must have been damaged sometime in the past there may be a bit of air leakage. I also rotated the distributor to get the "best" running. Having fitted electronic ignition that came with the bike I tried to be scientific at first by marking TDC on the alternator rotor (there's no inspection panel on this old bike) then marking 6 and 10* advance and running briefly with cover removed and strobing. I'm not quite sure what had happened but I could not get it running correctly at anything like the expected setting hence resorting to rotating the distributor to get the best running. I've done it many time in the past with old cars and always found this to be accurate within a degree or so, so let's hope this is the same.
Anyway the only problem experienced was the rear brake binding, after adjustment all was fine. There is still some transmission noise but I changed all the oils and found no metal debris so will now assume everything is good to go.
Next years project will be to remove the blue parts and repaint.

 

[grandpaul]

Very nice classic bathtub.

Personally, I would just hit it well with Rubbing Compound, then wax the heck out of it.

 

[speedrattle]

if you got it running correctly rotating the distributor by feel, dont worry about finding the correct numbers. the motor cannot read.

dunno what your fuel is like but on this relatively mild motor the correct timing setting is likely to be about two degrees short of pinking. find it by testing.