Give me your HONEST opinion

[dazco]

please, no holds barred and don't be afraid to insult me, as i'm not looking to be told i'm right here, i just want to know if i am so i can deal with this manufacturer accordingly. So i need to know whether to back off and take the loss or fight. Heres the deal. I bought a new tire for the bird, a michelin. When it arrived it had the typical 8 trillion stickers all over it. I pulled them all off and there was one remaining i'd never seen on any tire before. A small bar code about an inch long by about 1/4". It was stuck right on the bead. So obviously, or at least it seemed obvious to ME, a sticker on the bead isn't good and must be removed. After all, the bead is the seal that keeps it airtight. So i try and peel it off and it's very hard to remove. I will admit to being unsure at that point as to whether it's supposed to stay, but the prevailing thought was no, why would there be a sticker on the bead that should stay. So i got a dull exacto blade to pry it up. I got the edge up and pulled and it was very hard which worried me more, but it was already pulled up and tearing so i pulled all the way and about a quarter of the length tore off. At that point i got a magnifier and looked at it and notice the sticker is actually in a recess the same shape and size as the sticker. The sticker turned out to be as thick as say one of those manila folders. So now i have about 1/4 of it gone and theres a void there. granted, maybe only .007" or such, but a recess on the bead can't be good. My thought is how am i supposed to know that sticker is in a recess?

I called michelin and they said it's not meant to be removed and that i need to take it to a dealer and ask them if it's ok or not and to have the dealer call them if not. In my conversation it was suggested to me that it the tire is unusable I will not be compensated and I will take the loss. I would understand that if there had been any kind of warning, but i have never seen a tire in my life with anything like this, and I do understand enough to know a bead should not be compromised with a sticker or anything. granted, the sticker was a whole different thing than a typical sticker and put into a recess and should be left. But i never heard of anything like that and i feel like i'm not alone in thinking like this. I feel like they should compensate me for the loss, not because they put that thing there, but because it's IMO completely unusual and they should have had a warning of sorts.

So be honest, i really don't want anyone to be sympathetic to my issue over being honest about what they think. Who's right and who's wrong here? If i'm wrong i want to know. I don't want to bother with taking this further if i'm out of line, but i also don't want to throw away a couple hundred dollars if they rightfully should compensate me. If it works out that most of you think i'm in the wrong i will leave it be. If not i will talk to them and ask then to read this thread. Thanks for being honest with me ! (I'm assuming you will )

 

[DaveM]

Well not knowing how things work your side I will give my thoughts on this anyway

I too have never seen a sticker like this but with that said I may have called the dealer and asked about this or checked online to see if I could find something about it before trying to remove it because of where it was. If I had of tried and found it a bit difficult (not just peeling off as normal) I may have been extra careful t make sure of the above. I would have also however thought if it was not to be removed there would have been some type of warning on it "DO NOT REMOVE" in red.

I just had a look on their web site and I see they don't list your bike in the tire selector option as I thought maybe seeing it would give me more input into this

 

[shanered6]

well i think theres 2 sides to this ! 1.. the bar code you speeck of is for the manufacturer ...if a fault occures ....to know where the tyre was made and the date of manufacture etc.. ..2.. i think the sticker should carry a warning telling you not to remove it !
no afence ment but most manufacturers treat jo public... as thick as and use warnings as a matter of course .
so i find my self leaning in to your corner !

but then again you are recommended to use a dealer to fit the tyre !

 

[dazco]

I do have a dealer fit it. I just buy it, remove the wheel and take it in for mounting. I would never try and mount a 200/50/17 myself ! Heck, even my speedmaster i'd never have, and it's tire was much smaller. Bonnie.....maybe, tho still probably not.

 

[Rocky]

I think you're going to be in the wrong on this one since you did it to the tire. A dealer or manufacturer can't and won't take responsibility for what you did. The dealer or manufacturer would have to be of an extreeeeeme and generous frame of mind to replace the tire as a goodwill gesture. But you might get lucky.
But I also agree that there should be some kind of warning too. Not every tire intaller in every shop knows everything about tires.
The other side of the issue is that it should have been installed by a dealer or a bike shop. That's where they're going to get you. I would be surprised if a shop would install the tire now or even give you an opinion. I'm sure they will tell you straight out that the tire is ruined - whether it is or not. Too much liability at stake.
But I'll bet the tire will hold air just fine! But then I can't see it.

Had it been me I would have stopped as soon as I saw that the sticker wouldn't come off like all the others, and do as Dave suggested - do some research, make some calls, email, etc.
Sorry, but I think you're in the wrong and that's a shame.

 

[avion]

I have seen this stickers before and have left them on, not because I know that they aren't to be removed but I couldn't be bothered.

I think that so long as there is no markings whatsoever on the tyre (inside perhaps?) or the paperwork for the tyre, then you can't be held responsible for removing a 'sticker'.

I personally feel that if what you have stated above is true, then you are in the right.

However, I would mount the tyre anyway and use it. The bead of a tyre is able to cope with this in its design. No problem.

0.02$ Aus (for a change)

hth

...

 

[dazco]

Well, on a whim i called the ducati dealer that mounts my tires for me and i didn't expect a definitive answer. the guy wasn't sure and i fugured like i thought, no answer. then i said is there anyone there that might know more and he said yes. On hold about 3-4 minutes and when he returned he said the service manager said he too has removed them in the past but no longer does, and that it's not a problem ! I was shocked. Usually something like this you'll get no answer or a very vague one or at best a "we'd have to see it". I only called out of desperation in hopes of getting an answer that would at least give some hope. I'm surely relieved. Of course having spent nearly 60 years on this planet i haven't gotten this far w/o learning a few things, and so i won't be fully satisfied till it's been on for a week and i see it's holding air. But at least now i can relax a bit till a week from now when i have it mounted. Thanks for your honesty.

 

[Rocky]

FANTASTIC news!!!!!
I couldn't be more delighted for you

 

[dazco]

Thanks Rocky, i'll join you in that delight. Now hopefully this new one will outlast the others i've tried. (supposed to almost double the 5-6k i usually get)

 

[devo]

Lesson learnt Dale
next time let the tyrefitter earn his fee and remove the stickers.
Had this scenario happened at a tyre shop you would have had a legitimate claim
however,it can be successfully argued you should have left it all to the fitter.

 

[dazco]

Yeah, i should have. It just seemed so wacky to have a non removable sticker on the bead i couldn't see a reason why it could possibly be right to leave it. I mean who'd ever think it's in a recess like that? But i have a argument that IMO is totally valid for not leaving it to the fitter.....i have been to very few shops where the mechanics are competent enough about simple things let alone something like that that even that ducati mech said he didn't know at first ! (and that ducati dealer's service dept is one of the most highly respected bike shops in so cal) Of course i couldn't use that in court, but i go by logic unlike a lot of people and even courts !

 

[devo]

But i have a argument that IMO is totally valid for not leaving it to the fitter.....i have been to very few shops where the mechanics are competent enough about simple things let alone something like that that even that ducati mech said he didn't know a

agreed Dale
but if they eff it up,they pay,not you.

 

[avion]

Talking about pressures dropping over a week....

The Tiger is the only bike I've had that doesn't lose pressure over a week. All my other bikes lose a bit front and back and I've had various brands on them.
Tiger can go nearly three breakfast runs without me pumping some air in.

Come to think of it, all the tyres that lose pressure have been superbikes and streetfighters (which use the same type of tyre). Perhaps its something to do with the carcass.

...

 

[otherwise]

Because of time difference I'm late to this thread, it's good that you have it sorted already.
I think you caused the problem at the point when you said,
"So i got a dull exacto blade to pry it up. I got the edge up and pulled and it was very hard which worried me more, but it was already pulled up and tearing so i pulled all the way and about a quarter of the length tore off."
If I'd found myself in the same position after the sticker was removed I think I'd have just kept my mouth shut and been careful for a few weeks until the thing had settled in and shown that it was holding air.

 

[keystiger]

All three Triumphs I have owned where excellent on holding pressure. Current Tiger as well. regardless of tire brand.
Daz glad things worked out for you.
I have been changing my own tires for years......and years.....started on my dirt bikes as a kid and have just kept doing it. A number of "tire changing tools" are available from Harbor Freight and others. I have owned a few, and honestly the cost of install...the machine pays for itself in 2 tire changes. However the ol "spoons" system and some "heat" from letting the tires lay in the sun first always works a charm for me.
I just did it cause I am a cheap bastard and I don't trust the stealerships with my bike anymore than I have to. I don't agree with Devo. (sorry Devo) If the mechanic at the shop doesn't do his job right.......YOU pay.....possibly with your life! If people mess up on your car.....maybe a wreck....maybe not. But if they screw up on your bike....................maybe WAAAY worse. No thanks I do everything I possibly can on my bike, myself. Period.
Not passing judgement Daz. or anything. Just saying. If I screw up, well I pay my debt. BUt not paying the debt, of some hungover snot nose in the shop.

 

[hemibee]

I've changed many a tire over my lifetime, bike, car, truck and assorted construction equipment. I'm probably more experienced than most "tech's" in local shops. I have seen the sticker in the bead on several Michelin tires and questioned it on the first one until I noticed it was recessed in the bead and installed with no worries. If it had not been recessed I would have taken it off and chaulked it up to the "quality" help folks are hiring these days.

I don't think it is an issue.

To answer the why not. . . experience in changing tires. I've changed plenty tires that had gouges, cuts, scraps, tits, bumps or other irregularities in the bead and have not had a problem with them. When I set the bead, it's set. I also check the tire to make sure the bead is set and only had a problem with a couple of them, but since they were truck tires I just busted the bead down and threw a tube in it. Another reason, NO tire and NO wheel is perfect, there is some leeway in the system to insure proper sealing.

Now with all that said, no I would not have removed the bar-code but that's just me. Yes I would still mount the tire and ride it. I'm also one that checks my bike tires and sets the air pressure on them before each ride, the rear on Black Betty is pretty rock solid with air pressure, I mounted it. The front, I have to add air everytime I ride, the shop mounted it. Yes, both are tubed tires so that does make it a little different than your situation. If there is going to be a problem with the tire, you (or shop tech) should see this at the time it is mounted if the job is done correct. I wouldn't hold my breath on a shop tech actually doing it the proper way instead of the shop way. . . mount it and kick it out the door. The proper way would be to run some Snoop or a homemade solution around the bead to check it and to verify the air pressure has not changed since the tire was first inflated. I inflate, check for seat and proper pressure before I move to the balancer. After the tire/wheel are balanced I recheck at a minimum the air pressure.

***The above is just my opinion, YMMV *** With the above opinion and $59.95 you can purchase a small cup of that crap they sell at Starbucks. *** But you asked for our opinions and that was mine.***

 

[dazco]

All three Triumphs I have owned where excellent on holding pressure. Current Tiger as well. regardless of tire brand.
Daz glad things worked out for you.
I have been changing my own tires for years......and years.....started on my dirt bikes as a kid and have just kept doing it. A number of "tire changing tools" are available from Harbor Freight and others. I have owned a few, and honestly the cost of install...the machine pays for itself in 2 tire changes. However the ol "spoons" system and some "heat" from letting the tires lay in the sun first always works a charm for me.
I just did it cause I am a cheap bastard and I don't trust the stealerships with my bike anymore than I have to. I don't agree with Devo. (sorry Devo) If the mechanic at the shop doesn't do his job right.......YOU pay.....possibly with your life! If people mess up on your car.....maybe a wreck....maybe not. But if they screw up on your bike....................maybe WAAAY worse. No thanks I do everything I possibly can on my bike, myself. Period.
Not passing judgement Daz. or anything. Just saying. If I screw up, well I pay my debt. BUt not paying the debt, of some hungover snot nose in the shop.

I couldn't tell it was recessed till i took that bit off. I wouldn't have done it either had i been able to see that. Of course my eyes aren't what they used to be and the lighting wasn't great. I believe you're right about the bead being able to work fine even with imperfections, and i was looking closely at it tonite and noticed something that i think may suggest that the part the sticker is on isn't that important to the seal anyways. Look at the bead as a L shale. The long part of the L being the last bit of the sidewall, then it does a almost 90 degree angle. That corner of the L is i believe where the seal's integrity is all important, not the part the sticker is on. After looking at the tire i have 2 reasons that i believe this. One is that the corner or edge of the bead is by the tire pressure shoved hard into the corner of the rim's channel and seems to me where the most pressure would be on the bead and therefore the best part of the seal. Second, and this is what made me recognize that, i noticed a tiny raised bead on that corner running all around the tire about the size of a pin. There only one reason i can see for that....it's going to flatten against that inner corner of the rim and it will cause a tight seal. So i believe thats where the important part of the seal's integrity is meant to be. I could be wrong, and i could be a moronic imbecile. But i think theres at least a chance in hell i'm not.

 

[keystiger]

***The above is just my opinion, YMMV *** With the above opinion and $59.95 you can purchase a small cup of that crap they sell at Starbucks. *** But you asked for our opinions and that was mine.***[/QUOTE]

Starbucks is only $59.95 in Texas?!?!?! Man thats a deal! Had to pawn the title to my car last time I went.

X's 2 on the opinion "thing" my post is just that MHO. It is worth ---apparently-- way less than a cup of Starbucks lol

 

[CarlS]

Dale, I am glad you got it sorted. I would certainly use the tire if it were mine.

Talking about pressures dropping over a week....

The Tiger is the only bike I've had that doesn't lose pressure over a week. All my other bikes lose a bit front and back and I've had various brands on them.
Tiger can go nearly three breakfast runs without me pumping some air in.

Come to think of it, all the tyres that lose pressure have been superbikes and streetfighters (which use the same type of tyre). Perhaps its something to do with the carcass.

...

G, the same here. Bith of my Bonnies loose air in a weeks time. My Tiger does not lose air.