Fork Rebuild - ‘75 T160

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Duck749

Active Member
I am looking for some advice / tips on removing the end plug stanchion from the tube?

After pulling forks to service I notice oring that was chewed up that came out with the damper screw from bottom fork tube. I would like to remove the end plug so I can pull the damper and replace orings.

I have had the fork in triple clamps and tried breaking end plug loose. Any tips appreciated, confirmation if its LH or RH thread, etc.

D6482C05-81C9-494F-A518-CE6DEE33E39F.jpeg
 
advice / tips on removing the end plug stanchion from the tube?
I would like to remove the end plug so I can pull the damper and replace orings.
Simply, do not bother. To remove the damper, you must remove the springs; to remove the springs, you must remove the plug in the top of the stanchion. Once they are removed, the damper simply pushes out. I have owned a T160 from brand new, I have never removed the nuts from the bottom of the stanchions.

To remove the plug in the top of a stanchion, do not use an Allen key, the size is expensive and you cannot push down on the plug. I use a short length (1") of hex bar in the plug's socket and then a standard socket on a short extension on a T bar.

You must push down on the plug both when removing and fitting, it is soft alloy and the threads are fine; if you do not push down on the plug when removing (and fitting), when only a few threads are engaged in the stanchion, the spring pressure can rip the threads off the plug.

Plug removed, if the spring does not extend about 1" above the stanchion, the spring is faulty or wrong.

Unless fitting better than the standard dampers, T140 progressive springs specifically from Progressive Suspension.

The standard damper head O ring (97-4003) is the cause of much stiction in the forks, I replace with Damper valve seal conversion 1971 on (pair) for much reduced stiction.

The stanchions must be polished inside (some are not :(); if not, this will also cause much stiction whichever damper seals are fitted and will wear either seal type rapidly.

The standard 97-4001 fork seals are poor. I have used the later Leak Proof seals, as Meriden fitted 78 onwards, since 1983, never required replacement. If you make the change, you will require 97-7010, includes the seals retaining rings.

L.P. Williams also have the Ariete version of 97-4001 (97-4001A) but I have never used them.

Progressive Suspension fitting instructions advise setting fork oil level by height, as on modern bikes, (y) not volume. Ime, setting by volume, the oil heights can differ significantly between legs, which affects the volume of the air spring between the two legs. (n) I have used Bel-Ray fork oil since 1983, 7.5 is about equivalent to the Triumph recommended ATF.

oring that was chewed up that came out with the damper screw from bottom fork tube.
If you mean part 31 97-4004, it is not an O ring, it should be a 5/16" Dowty washer, that specifically fits in the recess in the bottom of the slider (parts catalogue "Outer member").

However, unless the 14-1019 Allen screw is not threaded where it ends up through the Dowty washer, damping fluid can leak down the thread past the Dowty; :rolleyes: I assemble with Hylomar (ensuring all parts are degreased thoroughly).

Before refitting the alloy plug in the stanchion, degrease and clean both threads throroughly - slivers of alloy can come off the plug, will jam it in the stanchion. :(

When refitting the alloy plug, because the spring protrudes above the stanchion, you must be able to push down absolutely centrally on the plug and you must be able to screw the plug well into the stanchion without releasing the downward pressure. :( However, because of the spring pressure, be aware it is difficult to know if the plug cross threads; if you do cross thread it, sometimes it can be rescued after unscrewing and another thorough clean of both threads; but sometimes you need a new plug.

I seal the top threads of a plug to prevent damping fluid leaks.
 
Simply, do not bother. To remove the damper, you must remove the springs; to remove the springs, you must remove the plug in the top of the stanchion. Once they are removed, the damper simply pushes out. I have owned a T160 from brand new, I have never removed the nuts from the bottom of the stanchions.

To remove the plug in the top of a stanchion, do not use an Allen key, the size is expensive and you cannot push down on the plug. I use a short length (1") of hex bar in the plug's socket and then a standard socket on a short extension on a T bar.

You must push down on the plug both when removing and fitting, it is soft alloy and the threads are fine; if you do not push down on the plug when removing (and fitting), when only a few threads are engaged in the stanchion, the spring pressure can rip the threads off the plug.

Plug removed, if the spring does not extend about 1" above the stanchion, the spring is faulty or wrong.

Unless fitting better than the standard dampers, T140 progressive springs specifically from Progressive Suspension.

The standard damper head O ring (97-4003) is the cause of much stiction in the forks, I replace with Damper valve seal conversion 1971 on (pair) for much reduced stiction.

The stanchions must be polished inside (some are not :(); if not, this will also cause much stiction whichever damper seals are fitted and will wear either seal type rapidly.

The standard 97-4001 fork seals are poor. I have used the later Leak Proof seals, as Meriden fitted 78 onwards, since 1983, never required replacement. If you make the change, you will require 97-7010, includes the seals retaining rings.

L.P. Williams also have the Ariete version of 97-4001 (97-4001A) but I have never used them.

Progressive Suspension fitting instructions advise setting fork oil level by height, as on modern bikes, (y) not volume. Ime, setting by volume, the oil heights can differ significantly between legs, which affects the volume of the air spring between the two legs. (n) I have used Bel-Ray fork oil since 1983, 7.5 is about equivalent to the Triumph recommended ATF.


If you mean part 31 97-4004, it is not an O ring, it should be a 5/16" Dowty washer, that specifically fits in the recess in the bottom of the slider (parts catalogue "Outer member").

However, unless the 14-1019 Allen screw is not threaded where it ends up through the Dowty washer, damping fluid can leak down the thread past the Dowty; :rolleyes: I assemble with Hylomar (ensuring all parts are degreased thoroughly).

Before refitting the alloy plug in the stanchion, degrease and clean both threads throroughly - slivers of alloy can come off the plug, will jam it in the stanchion. :(

When refitting the alloy plug, because the spring protrudes above the stanchion, you must be able to push down absolutely centrally on the plug and you must be able to screw the plug well into the stanchion without releasing the downward pressure. :( However, because of the spring pressure, be aware it is difficult to know if the plug cross threads; if you do cross thread it, sometimes it can be rescued after unscrewing and another thorough clean of both threads; but sometimes you need a new plug.

I seal the top threads of a plug to prevent damping fluid leaks.
Rudie;

You mentioned "Progressive Suspension" fork springs in your reply to Duck 749 above and I was wondering if you (or anyone out there) know how Progressive Suspension springs compare with "Ikon (brand) Progressive" fork springs. I don't know which ones might offer a smoother ride (where small bumps are a concern) and still offer good stiffness and response in the hard turns or braking for my '78 Bonneville. I am soon to buy SOMETHING other than stock springs. What say you?

Thanks,


Oh, and just a side note: I had installed the "Leak-Proof" fork seals back in 2015 and they are to date sealing perfectly.
 
Simply, do not bother. To remove the damper, you must remove the springs; to remove the springs, you must remove the plug in the top of the stanchion. Once they are removed, the damper simply pushes out. I have owned a T160 from brand new, I have never removed the nuts from the bottom of the stanchions.

I am little confused, the manual shows that the assembly comes out the bottom. With the main spring out, it appears the damper assembly does not come out the top, there is neck feature (?) in the ID of fork tube which prevents it coming past a certain point.

Through the lower stanchion plug the damper tube sticks out when it is all the way in (compressed position). Even if damper nut removed the damper still does not pass by the neck feature.
 
I am little confused, the manual shows that the assembly comes out the bottom. With the main spring out, it appears the damper assembly does not come out the top, there is neck feature (?) in the ID of fork tube which prevents it coming past a certain point.

Through the lower stanchion plug the damper tube sticks out when it is all the way in (compressed position). Even if damper nut removed the damper still does not pass by the neck feature.
Duck;

The damper CANNOT come out the bottom cuz there is only a little hole there for the damper retaining screw. If I recall correctly, the damper assembly must be "YANKED" out by the roots with a chain attached to a bulldozer and tied to a mature oak tree . . . no, not that way . . . but all seriousness aside, if you can, do watch the video mentioned above as most forks behave in this fashion:
Delboy's Garage, How-To replace regular type fork seals.

I watched it and it looks good to me.
 
confused, the manual shows that the assembly comes out the bottom.
The image in your first post is the parts book drawing; these are not assembly instructions, just where the draughtsman drew the parts - e.g. other Triumph parts books have spring and damper parts beside the stanchion or slider.

With the main spring out, it appears the damper assembly does not come out the top, there is neck feature (?) in the ID of fork tube which prevents it coming past a certain point.
Photo of the "neck feature"? Or your bike has non-standard stanchions.
 
Appreciate the feedback on what parts I will need/recommended, after looking into them some and talking with online retailers, I went with the correct tool for the job.

Mentioned earlier that the tube was clamped and I couldn’t get lower plug out depicted in diagrams.

06A2BF60-5E20-4E13-8432-AA4A48A11660.jpeg

With the right tool for the job and identifying gobs of loctite used, finally broke it loose.

F543D4B1-0C0B-468B-8D45-2531661E9F84.jpeg
A1021F65-2785-4EFC-92D2-EB27056935C5.jpeg
This allows the damper to now be removed and serviced, which appears to follow the diagrams. I have not cleaned and checked to identify why damper is not coming out the top of the fork. I have found all parts through various online retailers which suggest this is a serviceable method.

F3CD89A1-997A-4520-A5AF-333772177B9D.jpeg

6FEA6DE3-5A89-4C87-96FF-F66A65445AA7.jpeg
 
always be careful of the parts books. if you look closely up there at that first image, uou will notice the draftsman retained the image of the right -side conical drum brake fork slider alongside the left-side disc brake slider.

this shortcut persisted in the drawings for several years, iirc
 
After cleaning everything up and further inspecting, found that the one fork was over tightened causing an out of round condition, preventing damper from coming out the top. The damper valve could go in tube in either direction and then see light around parts of the valve (showing the egg shape of fork tube) which prevented it from going straight through.

1507C3AD-0C2D-4DBF-8391-283A5C261F72.jpegFF75DE99-731A-404A-8178-B55BC3478239.jpeg
 
After cleaning everything up and further inspecting, found that the one fork was over tightened causing an out of round condition, preventing damper from coming out the top. The damper valve could go in tube in either direction and then see light around parts of the valve (showing the egg shape of fork tube) which prevented it from going straight through.

View attachment 53454View attachment 53455
Yer stanchion in the photo above looks a bit toasted, like the chrome is slightly gone. They are not too spendy to replace, you know, while you got the whole thing tore down. But that's just me . . . I have a problem wanting to replace EVERYTHING that looks a little worn: chains - tires - seals - sprockets - pistons - gauges - cables - seats - . . .

www.mapcycle.com/categories/suspension/fork-tubes
 
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After cleaning everything up and further inspecting, found that the one fork was over tightened
Stanchions are thick wall steel, the possibility that either yoke could be tightened sufficiently to squash the stanchion without damaging the yoke is remote to non-existent. The stanchion was damaged in a collision and heated to be straightened instead of rolling it straight; when it was straightened after heating, the ovality remained.

I would check:-
  • the frame steering head and the tubes out of it closely for related damage;
  • the yokes with two stanchions you know to be straight, to ensure neither yoke is bent - two straight stanchions should slide through both yokes mounted in the frame.
 
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