First Group Ride - Ugh

[SarahP]

WARNING -- this is a really long post!!! Lots of venting here.
*************************************************************************
I finally did my first group ride a few weeks ago.

It was a pretty awful experience.

The group seemed pretty good at first - all older types, mostly retired poeple, 7 men, 3 women. No youngsters. Most of them had big Harleys/Goldies, although there was one other renegade Triumph guy in the group.

During the pre-departure briefing, I made it known to all that this was my first time. There was another rider who was new to group rides as well.

The leader discussed how to line up in formation, debris in the road, and hand signals. After the lengthy brief on hand signals, I asked about comms and could I pair up (Bluetooth headset) with anyone. They looked at me as though I were speaking Swahili.

The two-hour route - which the leader hemmed & hawed and wouldn't tell us exactly the way we were going - was on all back roads in northern Virginia: rural, a few twisties, but mostly 2-lane country roads so we could enjoy the fall colors.

After the brief, the leader got on his bike, waited a second, and then just pulled out. Seriously, it was about 10 seconds from finishing the brief to his leaving. I gotta tell you, it takes me more than just putting my butt on the saddle to go. I'm still new enough that I have to consciously think about which foot goes where so I don't roll backwards or pop the clutch. So I let myself be a bit rushed on the departure and realized after pulling out that my earplugs weren't seated properly and my helmet cam wasn't on. Stupid me for allowing myself to be rushed.

Away we roared. Almost immediately, the formation disintegrated into a long, straggly line. We were ripping through the country lanes. Corners that were posted at 30mph/48kph were taken at 60 mph/96kph. Well, they were ripping through them. I sure as hell wasn't.

And on the straightaways, through the gorgeous Virginia horse country, they were clocking at 70 mph/113kph. What the heck is the point of traveling the backroads if you're going superslab speeds? The last 4 of us in the group just let the speed demons ride away from us.

They rode through a downtown area (small town) (speed limit 35 mph/56kph) at 50 mph.

The final straw for me was approaching a corner that quickly turned not-so-good. I was #9 out of 10 in the line up. As I looked at the corner coming up, and started lining up for outside-inside-outside, I started seeing little puffs of dirt from the bikes ahead of me.

Uh-oh, must be not-asphalt, LOL. Sure as sin, the paved road turned into several hundred feet of gravel and dirt --- and it all started right in the corner. I kept saying nice & easy, be smooth, don't upset the apple cart, gentle -- I felt the back tire slip and slide a bit, but I just pressed on. I think my few miles on the little dirt bike actually helped me a bit with that.

I imagine the guys on the $20,000 Goldwings were even more pissed than I was.

When we got to the lunch spot, I started hearing mutterings about the lead captain had been fired. Sure enough, he's not allowed to do any more group ride leads for a while. I had already decided there was no way I was riding 2 hours back with them. I split off after lunch and had a nice ride home.

We have another ride coming up -- I might try it once more and see how it goes with a different leader. But I'm glad I didn't let myself get pushed into riding too fast on the first one. And I won't let myself be rushed next time on departure, either. LOL

Oh yeah, about the comms thing --- maybe it's expecting too much, but a guy has a $15K motorcycle and won't spring $120 for a headset? The whole concept of hand signals is ridiculous to me when the group has stretched out to 1/4 - 1/2 mile. You can't see diddly that far away. And I wasn't comfortable taking my hand off the handlebars to do some goofy Navy semaphore signaling. I suppose if you have just 1 or 2 riders, hand signals are workable. But the increase in safety using headset comms is huge, IMHO.

Ok, I told y'all this was a long one! Thanks for letting me vent.

 

[DaveM]

Well I have been riding all my adult life and I joined up with the local RAT group and did a few rides with them. I had the same story as if they were on a race. Most of the rides I ended up just taking my own route home after the lunch, as you say what is the fun if you supposed to be going on back roads and you racing and spend all your time just trying to stay in the group and on the road. I now enjoy riding at a nice speed where I am able to take in the sites around myself as I ride.

I would give it one more go if I were you and if you see it heading in the same direction just break off and do your own ride. The best is to try and find one or two other riders that enjoy riding as you do and you plan your own outings. I find that a group of around 3 to 4 riders that you used to riding with is always the better ride.

Never let a group push you further than what you feel safe with.

 

[Rocky]

Just yesterday I was thinking about you and how your group ride went. You hadn't posted anything so I was going to send you a PM this week.

Sorry to hear that it didn't go so well, but you did the right thing by leaving when you did.
The leader that day certainly was an a$$ and had no business being a leader. I've been a group leader dozens of times and don't leave until everyone knows where we're going, saddled and running.
You did the right thing by not allowing the leaders to pressure you into trying to keep up.
My advice to you previously was to ride at the rear and you did that

If the second ride turns sour again and you want to drop out before the first rest stop or lunchtime, you can cover yourself at the riders briefing by making it known that you may not be able to ride the whole way, so if you're missing at the first stop, not to worry about it. You can then leave at the first opportunity.
If the ride turns out well you can always say that you were enjoying yourself so much that you decided to stay

As for hand signals, I ride with a vintage bike club and 90% of the bikes don't have turn signals. None of us have helmet radios so we rely heavily on hand signals to indicate turns, hazards on the road, etc., and those signals are passed on down the line.
We stick close to the speed limits, stay fairly close together in a staggered formation (no stringing out for 1/4 - 1/2 a mile ), so hand signals work well for us.
Even if some of us are out together on modern bikes we ride the same way.

 

[SarahP]

Rocky,

Thanks for the advice from an experienced group rider! First, being at the end of the line did work out much better for me. Thanks for steerring me in that direction! I was able to see what everyone else was doing and not get caught short on some turns and route changes (and that gravel/dirt encounter).

The group president was last in line as the tail gunner, and he was pretty bent out of shape at how this guy led the first half of the ride. The prez was on a gorgeous Harley of some sort, but has only been riding for 3 years himself. He chuckled when I asked at the brief if we were going to cross the Blue Ridge range at one point, because I'm not ready to do that just yet. He told me that he hadn't crossed it yet, either, and that we were definitely NOT going on any route that took us into the hairpin mountain curves of that area. That made me feel a bit more relaxed, since the route itself was being treated as classified information! LOL

I thought some more about the comms last night -- I suspect that if you're with a group that's been riding together for a while, and isn't trying to break a Rossi track record, hand signals would work just fine. Heck, with my group, headsets would have been a disaster, too: I doubt the majority would have had the radio discipline to shut the heck up and listen rather than transmit.

Also, what torqued me about the gravel/dirt section was that it wasn't as though the road had deteriorated overnight. In the predeparture brief, the lead said he had ridden the route twice in the previous week. But this part of the road was a well-established dirt/gravel section for hundreds of feet - it wasn't a washed-out area from a driveway or a shoulder area. I thought it was extremely irresponsible to lead folks into it, doing gangbusters on the speed, with no warning. I may be too sensitive as a newbie rider, though. But you can never go wrong erring on the side of caution and safety.

Thanks for the advice and info!

 

[SarahP]

Well I have been riding all my adult life and I joined up with the local RAT group and did a few rides with them. I had the same story
***********************************************************************************************************
Dave, good advice about the 3-4 riders, max. I'm sorry that you had the same experience that I did -- riders trying to beat land speed records while out on a supposedly relaxed country ride. But it makes me feel good to hear that my experience wasn't just some weird anomaly. I guess this is a pretty common event.

One of the fast riders told me that his yardstick is the old rule about take the posted speed limit, double it and add 10 for his entry speed. I have no problem doing that on a track or if you know the area, but the problem is the sight line: you never know if there's a deer/car/bike in the middle of the road just around the bend.

If it's not too cold tomorrow, I'll try it again and get back on the Forum to whine, errrr, I mean, post about it.

 

[George S.]

I agree with all your concerns and criticisms about the ride being poorly planned and executed. There was no excuse for riding on the gravel stretch. You weren't riding the outback, there had to be a work-around road to take to avoid that stretch. I'd be careful riding in this group even with another leader and not expect a 180 degree turn around from that cluster.

You need to find a group that rides the way you want to ride.

I guess I'm very lucky to be able to ride with the Meet Up group that I belong to. We do 10 bikes maximum, stick to at or very near the speed limits, and ride staggered and not stretched out a half mile. Since we ride secondary roads for the views and the pleasure of riding, there are no hot dogs in the group. We have also seen deer quite often. One recent ride we saw a few cross in front of us and then maybe a half mile further a Jeep traveling in the other direction struck one of another group of deer just as we neared him. We do a 2 1/2 hour ride to a destination (lunch stop, museum, etc) and those that want to speed and ride like they're on the track are free to split off after lunch and ride home at that pace or on a different route.

 

[Rocky]

It's all about you, your life and your own safety so don't ever apologize for that one little bit!
The speed limit times two plus ten is idiotic! What a maroon!

I've been group riding with most of the same guys for 20 years, but we're not complacent and take anything for granted.
Too much can happen too quickly. It's always safety first.

Too bad you're so far away. I know you would love riding with us on our winding coastal roads

Barney will work well in the curves and that's something you should try alone down the line at some point to have that experience under your belt.
Curves can be scary but lots of fun once you have the confidence. You know your limits so always ride your own ride.

 

[Mad On Triumphs]

Sounds like the leader is a right dickhead, I agree with you Nancy, what's to point of attempting the land speed record, when all you want to do is enjoy the scenery, give it another go if you want to, but if it's the same again, then walk away. I'm lucky in that I have a few friends that ride in a sedate manor, if they want to go off then I just let them, I can't be bothered will rushing around.

 

[DaveM]

The one thing that stops me leaving the start point is when they say we need to ride in formation, I like to pick who is going to be in close proximity to myself. I suppose this was also why I could never join a bike club as I just would not be told when to ride and how to ride, it has served me well all my riding years.

 

[Rocky]

The one thing that stops me leaving the start point is when they say we need to ride in formation, I like to pick who is going to be in close proximity to myself. I suppose this was also why I could never join a bike club as I just would not be told when to ride and how to ride, it has served me well all my riding years.

As I mentioned, I've been riding with most of the same guys for 20 years. We all know each other pretty well and have confidence in who is around each other.
We use the staggered formation, but don't ride in a tight pack. We allow plenty of space front and rear between riders and that seems to be the best way.
In all those years we've never had an incident, but like all things, it's not for everyone.

I enjoy the club rides and the camaraderie, but let me loose alone on my Bonneville or either Honda and I will really enjoy my ride - free as a bird to do as I want

 

[Qship]

It's all about you, your life and your own safety so don't ever apologize for that one little bit!
The speed limit times two plus ten is idiotic! What a maroon!

I'll second that!

 

[Baldeagle]

So much of the above replies to Nancy are correct information so not much for me to add.
During my many years with our section of the Goldwing club I was events organizer and led rides.
Hand signals were useful for the leader to point to hazards on the road,debris,oil,rocks even dead animals.
We always had tail end Charlie who would happily take up the rear and had commas with someone near or at the front,speaking of large groups here.
Although the wingers were steady and safe,my other group of friends,mostly with Hyabusas etc. were totally different,every ride was a race,not for me I knew where we were going and toddled along at my own pace,often arriving as they were taking their helmets off after having an extra fuel stop compared with me.I didn't like the possible attention of the law when three of them would wheelie away from the lights or stop sign and frequently came up to them when they had been caught by radar.
Trouble was they were a great bunch just living on the edge.
Nancy you will find people you are happy to ride with and with regular trips it becomes a great pleasure and not stressed,don't give up please.
It is also great to ride alone sometimes but on my regular trips through the Spanish mountains I have often wondered what would happen if I slipped over the edge,heaven forbid,but these days you,can even buy gadgets to inform,services,loved ones etc. of an incident.

The most important thing is not to stress but just ride at your own pace and enjoy,let the idiots pay the fines and the hospital bills,ride safe and enjoy.

 

[harper6t]

I ride with 3 different clubs, all classic bike oriented and all quite different in their style of rides. One has mostly 70's and 80's bikes with a smattering of older and newer bikes. Runs are generally small in numbers well planned and run at or above the speed limit, but no rider is left behind with regular catch up stops. The second club has the same sort of mix of bikes but more older riders and runs are at or below the speed limit, again no rider left behind as they have stops and being slower less likely to lose a rider and there is generally a backup rider or car. The 3rd club is a one make club, riders are generally on older machines (50's and 60's), fewer riders but rides can be well above the posted speed limits. My son has recently started riding with me in all 3 clubs and is absolutely not going to break the posted speed limit for fear of losing his licence, we got a set of intercom units and these have been a revelation, great for keeping in touch when he slows to the speed limit that the rest of the riders ignore, we ride at the back of the pack and make sure we have the route in our heads just in case we lose sight of the other riders. But in all the clubs we find that they will either slow down the ride and/or have extra catch up stops to allow for the slowest riders to rejoin the group.
It just shows that there are quite different styles of clubs/groups and you need to look around if the first club/group doesn't suit your riding.

 

[SarahP]

I ride with 3 different clubs, all classic bike oriented and all quite different in their style of rides.

Harper,

I think you hit the issue spot on -- I need to keep looking for a group that matches my style. Or maybe just find one or two people, not a whole gaggle.

Thanks, good post! Glad the intercom works well for you & your son. I think they're a huge help when riding with someone.

 

[triumph david]

I am late to this post, about the same thing has happened to me at one time in my adult riding life. I just pulled over with a few other riders that felt the same, we did just as you did and had a good ride home by ourselves.I still ride with some of these guys from time to time.Why ride at interstate speeds out in the country, you can't enjoy the sights and this time of year there are plenty especially in Virginia.

 

[Rocky]

I ride with 3 different clubs, all classic bike oriented and all quite different in their style of rides.

Harper,

I think you hit the issue spot on -- I need to keep looking for a group that matches my style. Or maybe just find one or two people, not a whole gaggle.

Thanks, good post! Glad the intercom works well for you & your son. I think they're a huge help when riding with someone.

If you could connect with only a couple of other riders who ride your style that would be the ideal situation.
Even though I ride every year with large vintage groups, riding alone or with one or two others is what I really like best.
I'm retired so during the week I often jump on one of the modern bikes (whichever is closest to the door ) and go for a spin down the coast for a few hours.
The locals are at work and there are hardly any tourists so I nearly have a free rein.

I guess we're just a bunch of old school/old farts and don't use radios
Nothing against them whatsoever, just never felt the need for them.