Banshee Horn
- Thread starter DaveM
- Start date
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I am going to try this. I will probably hook up the horn only.
I would like to have something like this one a bike I was at one time thinking about placing one of those air horns on but never got around to it. I like this the way the headlight also flashes.
EpicMale (Doc)
Active Member
Take it from an old geezer that has had literally thousands of cages try to run over him: No matter what technology is added to a motorcycle, or to the rider, there is little total effect until the operator is functioning at 100%.
My horn is used to get a friend's attention so he see's my friendly wave or to delight my 2 year old when she gets to push the button. But my horn is rarely used to warn or alert another motorist. Part of my opinion in this regard comes from some years of experience as an EMT/Paramedic. Picking up maimed riders and dead riders makes one hyperaware of how quickly death can strike.
That 1/2 second of forward motion during which the rider relies upon the sound of the horn to alert a cage threatening to 'occupy' his space may be the deciding factor of time/velocity to arrive at a fatal intersection of vector and velocity. The inventor's video actually illustrates this danger quite well.
Running the video reveals horn actuation at a location approximately even with the last driveway entrance upon the rider's left (the tree on the viewer's left has its shadow upon that driveway entrance). At 1:20-21, the driver the horn engages audibly. At a half second delay, at 30mph, that means the rider traveled 44 feet. So the rider sacrificed 44 feet of safety and put his life in the hands of a mechanical device that does not alter his velocity or vector. Add another .25 seconds for the rider's reaction time, and he will have traveled 66 feet further towards death or injury, when he should have been engaging the brakes or handlebars.
Using perspective analysis in a rather hasty form, which I sometimes utilize in a more time consuming, accurate, level as an expert witness, the point of the rider's 135db horn's audible engagement is approximately 50 feet from the point where the car would be if it zipped right out in front of him, by crossing the intersection. Yes, I know the vehicle's front wheels are slightly cocked to its right, but cage operators sometimes change their initially intended vector to a totally unpredictable, new (at least unpredictable to those of us outside the cage) vector.
So, perhaps in a worst case scenario, the rider in this sales video leaves himself a whopping 6' of critical decision making room. At thirty miles an hour, that isn't enough time to blow a snot ball of surprise onto the inside surface of his helmet visor as his front fender begins to impact the passenger door of the cage.
Relying upon one's horn, or loud pipes, to warn cages is a deadly trap. And this inventor has managed to inculcate an even trickier element to the deadly trap by fooling the rider into adding .25-.5 seconds to his critical response time for evasive manuevers or maximum effective braking effort! This inventor is undoubtedly a gifted electrical engineer, but he is a piss poor rider and an even worse advocate of safety issues!
All motorcycle horns are designed to create problems for the rider. This is one of those strange glitches in logic found in the industrial age. The only place that there is definite proof that warning horns/buzzers save lives is the back up alarm on trucks. Of course that was true the first few years, but people, as they are wont to do, developed frequency deafness, or perhaps more accurately, they filtered more of the overwhelming sensory input out of their stressed urban life. Garbage trucks still back over garbage truck workers, despite the audible alarms. The only really effective solution is to have a garbage truck driver that actually uses his overhang mirrors on the rear of the truck to make sure one of his garbage men isn't behind him.
Another series of factors that make horns flat out dangerous as a safety device is that they DO work...sometimes, or even often enough to make one start relying upon them every more heavily. Yes, a 135db horn at the college campus crosswalk can make the cutie in the tube top jump so high that a boob pops free. Of course the third time you try that, she just throws her cup of lukewarm coffee on you and your bike.
But how about all those cagers? How many have their windows rolled down on BOTH sides of their vehicle? How many have the windows up and the A/C or heater fan blowing on MAX, with their 600 watt stereo blasting out Boogie Bob's latest hit? And in an aging population, how many cagers (usually in the largest vehicles) have suffered significant hearing losses, and a loss in the mental ability to process and locate sudden, strange, new noises?
We cannot predict a cager's ability to perceive the horn, so therefore use of it is conditioning one's self to accept incredibly dangerous situations. I do, however, have something that can do far more than a horn to save your life. It is something that took me decades to develop. But that is best left for another post because I have a high end client due in my office.
My horn is used to get a friend's attention so he see's my friendly wave or to delight my 2 year old when she gets to push the button. But my horn is rarely used to warn or alert another motorist. Part of my opinion in this regard comes from some years of experience as an EMT/Paramedic. Picking up maimed riders and dead riders makes one hyperaware of how quickly death can strike.
That 1/2 second of forward motion during which the rider relies upon the sound of the horn to alert a cage threatening to 'occupy' his space may be the deciding factor of time/velocity to arrive at a fatal intersection of vector and velocity. The inventor's video actually illustrates this danger quite well.
Running the video reveals horn actuation at a location approximately even with the last driveway entrance upon the rider's left (the tree on the viewer's left has its shadow upon that driveway entrance). At 1:20-21, the driver the horn engages audibly. At a half second delay, at 30mph, that means the rider traveled 44 feet. So the rider sacrificed 44 feet of safety and put his life in the hands of a mechanical device that does not alter his velocity or vector. Add another .25 seconds for the rider's reaction time, and he will have traveled 66 feet further towards death or injury, when he should have been engaging the brakes or handlebars.
Using perspective analysis in a rather hasty form, which I sometimes utilize in a more time consuming, accurate, level as an expert witness, the point of the rider's 135db horn's audible engagement is approximately 50 feet from the point where the car would be if it zipped right out in front of him, by crossing the intersection. Yes, I know the vehicle's front wheels are slightly cocked to its right, but cage operators sometimes change their initially intended vector to a totally unpredictable, new (at least unpredictable to those of us outside the cage) vector.
So, perhaps in a worst case scenario, the rider in this sales video leaves himself a whopping 6' of critical decision making room. At thirty miles an hour, that isn't enough time to blow a snot ball of surprise onto the inside surface of his helmet visor as his front fender begins to impact the passenger door of the cage.
Relying upon one's horn, or loud pipes, to warn cages is a deadly trap. And this inventor has managed to inculcate an even trickier element to the deadly trap by fooling the rider into adding .25-.5 seconds to his critical response time for evasive manuevers or maximum effective braking effort! This inventor is undoubtedly a gifted electrical engineer, but he is a piss poor rider and an even worse advocate of safety issues!
All motorcycle horns are designed to create problems for the rider. This is one of those strange glitches in logic found in the industrial age. The only place that there is definite proof that warning horns/buzzers save lives is the back up alarm on trucks. Of course that was true the first few years, but people, as they are wont to do, developed frequency deafness, or perhaps more accurately, they filtered more of the overwhelming sensory input out of their stressed urban life. Garbage trucks still back over garbage truck workers, despite the audible alarms. The only really effective solution is to have a garbage truck driver that actually uses his overhang mirrors on the rear of the truck to make sure one of his garbage men isn't behind him.
Another series of factors that make horns flat out dangerous as a safety device is that they DO work...sometimes, or even often enough to make one start relying upon them every more heavily. Yes, a 135db horn at the college campus crosswalk can make the cutie in the tube top jump so high that a boob pops free. Of course the third time you try that, she just throws her cup of lukewarm coffee on you and your bike.
But how about all those cagers? How many have their windows rolled down on BOTH sides of their vehicle? How many have the windows up and the A/C or heater fan blowing on MAX, with their 600 watt stereo blasting out Boogie Bob's latest hit? And in an aging population, how many cagers (usually in the largest vehicles) have suffered significant hearing losses, and a loss in the mental ability to process and locate sudden, strange, new noises?
We cannot predict a cager's ability to perceive the horn, so therefore use of it is conditioning one's self to accept incredibly dangerous situations. I do, however, have something that can do far more than a horn to save your life. It is something that took me decades to develop. But that is best left for another post because I have a high end client due in my office.
You make some good points. I do not rely on a horn as a first line of defense safety device. By the time I hit the horn button, I am decelerating, covering the clutch and brake - if not engaging the brakes - and have evaluated my escape route(s).
I ride daily on two of the most traffic congested roads in Florida: I4 through Orange (Orlando) and Seminole Counties and State Road 436 through Altamonte Springs and Casselberry. Every single time I ride, I get cut off, or have some one try to change lanes into me. Sometimes they hear the feeble horn on the Bonnie and Tiger and sometimes they don't. Sometimes there is no escape route. I have the sixth sense to know when a cager is about to do something stupid or irresponsible and I try to be ready. I believe an air horn in some instances would pentrate the noise/fog/daydream of a driver who is oblivious that I am beside him/her. Granted some will not care and will try to occupy my space anyway.
I ride daily on two of the most traffic congested roads in Florida: I4 through Orange (Orlando) and Seminole Counties and State Road 436 through Altamonte Springs and Casselberry. Every single time I ride, I get cut off, or have some one try to change lanes into me. Sometimes they hear the feeble horn on the Bonnie and Tiger and sometimes they don't. Sometimes there is no escape route. I have the sixth sense to know when a cager is about to do something stupid or irresponsible and I try to be ready. I believe an air horn in some instances would pentrate the noise/fog/daydream of a driver who is oblivious that I am beside him/her. Granted some will not care and will try to occupy my space anyway.
I am looking forward to "the rest of the story".
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EpicMale (Doc)
Active Member
You actually covered a portion of the 'rest of the story' yourself. But I have quantified the mindset of riding a bit more over the decades. One has a slightly different perceptual skillset if they have been shot at, run over, stabbed, and generally abused in harsh ways. <G> I'll see if I can dig up a condensed version of Doc's Zen of Hyperawareness. Otherwise, I may put the entire membership to sleep.
I have had to change my riding style slightly on the Scrambler. The Valkyrie provided instant, impressive, acceleration in critical situations. The Scrambler is nifty and nimble, but I cannot ask it do some of the things the Valkyrie could. Of course the Scrambler is also starting to show me where it can outshine the Valkyrie.
I have had to change my riding style slightly on the Scrambler. The Valkyrie provided instant, impressive, acceleration in critical situations. The Scrambler is nifty and nimble, but I cannot ask it do some of the things the Valkyrie could. Of course the Scrambler is also starting to show me where it can outshine the Valkyrie.
There is definite mind set to defensive riding and a skill set that goes along with it. I fully agree about the experiment of being shot at, stabbed, run over, etc. One developes an acute awareness as a result. That awareness, a sixth sense, has saved my bacon many times. Looking forward to reading Doc's Zen of Hyperawareness.
Very good point about wasting space and time using the horn 'before' anything could happen. The only time I use the horn first is when I noticed a pedestrian up ahead dawdling across the road.
Normally I would take evasive action, then blare the horn for a good 5 seconds followed by a helping of hand signs and what I'd like to do to the offending driver.
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Normally I would take evasive action, then blare the horn for a good 5 seconds followed by a helping of hand signs and what I'd like to do to the offending driver.
...
I must admit I don't use my one that much either but I still like this setup
Well I am sure that could be changed
Certainly, you could eliminate the stock horn and replace it with an air horn. Lot's of folks have done so.
