78 Triumph T140e Crank case Disassembly Question

[Heidenreich12]

So I recently bought a 78 Triumph a few months back and have really enjoyed owning the bike. The issue I'm having though is that it has many false neutrals while shifting between gears, and fourth gear can hardly be found, and fifth has never been found.

After doing some research (and coming across this site a few times) it could be the clutch or the transmission causing the issue. The clutch is almost brand new, so I'm thinking that shouldn't be an issue. So I decided to dig into the transmission and see if I could see anything that appeared out of place or damaged. I've pulled out most of the gears and they all seem to be in perfect condition, and everything was oiled up nicely. I've read that it could be caused by the cam plate/ gear selector as well. This is where I get into problems.

Now for my noob question. While most of the gears came out easily, I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to remove the gears that are the farthest into the housing, and this causes me to not be able to get the cam plate out. Is there a special tool I need to get them out? Or is there something I'm just over looking? I've attached pictures below as to what gears I'm referring to.

I thought that maybe the shaft going through the gears needed to be pulled out and the gears would come off the other end of the shaft as it looks like they aren't going to come off the end the others came off of, so I went to take off any bolt that would be holding it from the clutch side.



Currently what the gearbox looks like, and you can see the gears I'm referring to.


This is currently the clutch side (which I'm not sure if I needed this off to do what I'm needing to do)


All help would be very much appreciated, as I'm new to these bikes and haven't been riding for to many years yet and still have a lot to learn.

 

[grandpaul]

You still need to pull the mainshaft out, which means removing the center & hub.

IF you have the late style camplate that is profiled, rather than round, you can remove the plunger and rotate it to where it will clear the drive gear. Otherwise it also means removing the sprocket and drive gear with splined outer shaft.

Lots of work, but worth it to replace the seal and ensure everything else is in order.

 

[Heidenreich12]

You still need to pull the mainshaft out, which means removing the center & hub.

IF you have the late style camplate that is profiled, rather than round, you can remove the plunger and rotate it to where it will clear the drive gear. Otherwise it also means removing the sprocket and drive gear with splined outer shaft.

Lots of work, but worth it to replace the seal and ensure everything else is in order.

Thanks for the quick reply. So when you're referring to the center and hub, that would be the part shown on the second image? I want to make sure I'm familiar with all of the technical names as you described. If that's correct, that is the direction I was head in to get that shaft out. So glad I was at least going in the correct direction.

So when I remove that main shaft, will those final gears on the shaft come off the other end of the shaft once it's pulled out? The opposite side that they other gears came off on?

Also, for the cam plate, I think I may have the profiled version. It isn't perfectly circled. Would it be pretty obvious to tell the difference? Do you know of a source that shows both the old and the newer version plate?

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[grandpaul]

You'll need the proper hub puller tool unless you are one of less than 17 people on earth that have the hub slip off the shaft with no heroic measures and/or breakage.

Actually, if you have the profiled camplate that looks like a pear with wings, rather than a circle with notches, it shouldn't need the shaft pulled out. I'll look for pix.

 

[Heidenreich12]

You'll need the proper hub puller tool unless you are one of less than 17 people on earth that have the hub slip off the shaft with no heroic measures and/or breakage.

Actually, if you have the profiled camplate that looks like a pear with wings, rather than a circle with notches, it shouldn't need the shaft pulled out. I'll look for pix.

I'll have to take a look when I get back home to see what the exact shape is. After your description, I'm thinking it may be the more circular one that is slightly oblong.

For the puller tool, would I just look up a hub puller with my model bike? I believe I've seen information on other parts of this site with people who have made and or purchased one for a pinion.

 

[grandpaul]

Yours will be the late model puller.

- - - Updated - - -

Late style camplate-

 

[Heidenreich12]

Does this look about right?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRIUMPH-BSA...Parts_Accessories&hash=item53f2683c98&vxp=mtr

Also, just saw your updated image you posted. I believe that image is what mine looks like

 

[grandpaul]

The ad states "pre unit up to 72" and then includes the later models.

NO!

It's one for the early models, and a different one for the later models.

 

[Heidenreich12]

The ad states "pre unit up to 72" and then includes the later models.

NO!

It's one for the early models, and a different one for the later models.

So I'm a little confused on this. In the description on that item is also states "1973 to 1983 750 T140", so I assumed that covered my model.

There are quite a few on eBay that say a similar line of "triumph 750 up to 1983". Does that mean that it would work on my make and model, or is there something specific I should be looking for in the description that will signify that it's the alternate tool.

For instance, this one (looks the same as my previously posted):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRIUMPH-3T-...Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ccba085ac&vxp=mtr

Again, thanks for the knowledge.

 

[grandpaul]

The threads are totally different on the "early" versus the "late" style pullers (and lots of other hardware). THEY ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE.

My guess is that the seller wants the buyer to specify which one they want.

 

[Heidenreich12]

So I contacted the seller of the first link with the information you brought up and this was his reply:

"There are different part numbers for this puller in the various years Triumph service manuals for 650 and 750 twins from pre-unit to 1983 (including 61-7014 and 60-1861), but they are the same threads. We've yet to see an original condition (re: not butchered) unit Triumph 650 or 750 made prior to 1983 that this doesn't work with. That said, we encourage you to do as much homework as possible prior to ordering."

So this just made things a bit more confusing. So there are two different version tools for a 78 T140? So I do not want anything stated as "pre-unit"?

Thanks for your help, just wanting to make sure I get this right before ordering. A bit confusing if they changed things up on a model during the same year.

 

[grandpaul]

All I know is that there are indeed two different tools for two different threads. The hub design and tool design are exactly the same apart from the thread differences (same goes for cam pinion pullers).

That's as far as I can help, as my research abilities are limited at my new job.

 

[charles]

Heidenreich, Call up British Cycle supply and give them the frame number and or engine number if your numbers are different. Those guys will know which one to sell you along with a service manual.
Charles

 

[Heidenreich12]

Heidenreich, Call up British Cycle supply and give them the frame number and or engine number if your numbers are different. Those guys will know which one to sell you along with a service manual.
Charles

Thanks for the tip, I think I may give them a call. The service manual i've been using is a PDF version I found online. So a physical manual would probably a good idea anyways. I'll see about getting the part in and give you guys an update on what happens. Thanks for all the help thus far, it's very much appreciated!

 

[Heidenreich12]

So the clutch hub puller came in today and worked for getting the shaft out. What I'm left with is a gear that is still intact with the case (pictured below). Will I need to pull the clutch basket completely off in order to get this final gear out?

Want to make sure before I go taking off things I don't necessarily need off.

While I'm asking, will I need any special parts to remove the cam plate once I'm able to?

Thanks for all the help.

 

[grandpaul]

Yes, remove the entire clutch system from the bike, then remove the "door" behind it (6 slot screws). Then, with the chain installed and the rear brake on, or a section of chain pinched in place with a large set of vice grips, knock loose the sprocket retaining nut. Removing the gear is then a simple matter of tapping it into the transmission cavity. I'm not sure how your clutch basket is still in the way if you've already removed the hub; the hub is the small flanged/splined bit BEHIND the basket.

- - - Updated - - -

The clutch CENTER (in front of the basket) should not have required any special tool to remove...

 

[Heidenreich12]

Thanks grandpaul. I may have mixed up my phrasing, but I just have the clutch hub resting in its position when I took the shaft out, so it wasn't the basket that was in the way.

I appreciate the quick reply and the steps you've provided. I'll update you further once I have time to get back to the bike.